JOURNEY Saga Continues With VALORY & SMITH Launching Counter Suit

It looks like the now infamous JOURNEY (Nightmare Productions) board meeting wasn't a coup to overthrow NEAL SCHON and JONATHAN CAIN, but rather a move to stop Neal from registering the name JOURNEY THROUGH TIME, which the participants argued would devalue the JOURNEY name. Cain and Schon then declined to follwo through on a band movie deal, to which Arnel refused to sing on the then upcoming tour unless it went ahead!
"Balaban & Spielberger, LLP, attorneys representing Ross Valory, a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame musician and bass player for the iconic rock band Journey, filed a Cross-Complaint in Contra Costa County Superior Court on April 6, 2020, against fellow band members Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain. The Cross-Complaint attaches evidence that refutes the Schon and Cain allegations and sets forth multiple causes of action for monetary damages against Schon and Cain for the ramifications of their conduct in trying to wrongfully excise Valory from the band.
Journey’s lead guitarist, Neal Schon, and keyboardist, Jonathan Cain filed a lawsuit on March 3, 2020, claiming Ross Valory and drummer Steve Smith attempted to launch a “coup” to take over Nightmare Productions, Inc. (the corporate entity that controls the band’s name and trademark) in order to effectuate some amorphous retirement plan that is not described in the Complaint. An Answer filed by counsel defending Mr. Valory (Richard Charnley of Charnley Rian) against the Complaint’s allegations and the Cross-Complaint (filed by Andrew Spielberger of Balaban & Spielberger LLP) disputes and refutes these allegations.
Over the last four decades, Journey has reigned as one of America’s most successful rock bands producing ten platinum albums, eighteen Top 40 singles, and selling more than 75 million albums worldwide. Journey formed in 1973 the same year it created Nightmare Productions Inc., which holds the rights to the band’s trademark and other intellectual properties.
According to Valory’s attorney, Andrew Spielberger, “Ross is shocked and devastated by the conduct of his lifelong bandmates (Schon and Cain) and is disappointed that there was never any attempt to sit down and discuss what is most likely a misunderstanding and something that easily could have been worked out.”
So SMITH and VALLOY have launched a counter-suit for the following:
From within the filing:
"Revenue data from past live Tour and Corporate Show performances from 2017 and 2018 in conjunction with anticipated revenues for a 2020 tour demonstrate that revenues approximate one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000.)"
"Following the legitimate Notice of a Special Shareholders Meeting, upon information and belief, Neal Schon’s agent(s) then informed members of the JOURNEY band as well as Shareholders in Nightmare Productions, Inc. that Neal Schon would not sign off on a (separate) movie deal with Warner Bros. Pictures as long as the Shareholders of Nightmare Productions, Inc. insisted on going forward with the noticed Special Shareholders Meeting set for 2/13/20.   Upon information and belief, Cross-Defendant Neal Schon, and Cross-Defendant Jonathan Cain indicated their refusal to sign off on the Warner Bros. Pictures movie deal regarding the band JOURNEY (having an adverse effect on Arnel Pineda), unless the 2/13/20 scheduled Shareholders and Directors Meeting was canceled. Subsequently, upon information and belief, since the 2/13/20 meeting was not being canceled, a purported discussion between both Cross-Defendants and Arnel Pineda took place informing Arnel Pineda of Cross-Defendants’ decision to cancel the movie deal.  Ultimately, upon information and belief, Mr. Pineda refused to sing with Journey if the movie deal did not go forward.  The Cross-Defendants relented and allowed the movie deal to proceed."
More to come...



JOURNEY vs JOURNEY - Smith & Valory Sued & Fired by Schon & Cain

JOURNEY’S Neal Schon & Jonathan Cain have put recent tensions behind them to launch an extraordinary lawsuit against fellow band members Steve Smith and Ross Valory.
Smith & Valoy have been fired, effective immediately.
Steve Perry votes with...??
What the hell is going on?
It seems Smith & Valory were attempting to take control of the band’s business entity Nightmare Productions to guarantee a better pay-day for after their retirement.
Here’s one summary:
[The] defendants attempted to launch an ill-conceived corporate coup d'état to assume control of Nightmare Productions because they incorrectly believe that Nightmare Productions controls the Journey name and Mark. They hope that, by taking over Nightmare Productions, they can hold the Journey name hostage and set themselves up with a guaranteed income stream after they stop performing. Smith and Valory began their campaign to take control of Nightmare Productions in December 2019 by conspiring to oust Schon and Cain from control.
Schon & Cain hit back with this:
Dear Mr. Smith and Mr. Valory:
This firm is counsel for Jonathan Cain and Neal Schon.
Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain are the remaining principal members of the band Journey.
Unfortunately, your recent actions, in concert with others, have demonstrated that you are no longer acting in the best interests of the band. As set forth in a Complaint filed today in the Superior Court of Contra Costa County, California, you both participated in a scheme to takeover
one of the band’s entities, Nightmare Productions, Inc., in breach of your fiduciary obligations.
You did so to enrich yourselves at the expense of our clients and to the detriment of the band. Our clients have lost all confidence in you and are not willing to perform with you.
Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain, through Elmo Partners, hold the sole exclusive, irrevocable license to the Journey name and all associated rights (the “Journey Mark”). Specifically, pursuant to the Trademark License Agreement, dated January 15, 1985, Nightmare Productions,
Inc. provided this license to Elmo Partners. The agreement provides that the license shall continue “until the date upon which none of Stephen Perry, Neal Joseph Schon, or Jonathan Cain is actively engaged in a professional music career utilizing the name “JOURNEY.”
Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain shall continue to pursue their music careers under the name Journey. Elmo Partners therefore retains and will continue to hold the exclusive, irrevocable license to the Journey Mark. Pursuant to the Agreement between the Elmo Partners, Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain control the Journey Mark. Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain are expressly authorized to perform together under the Journey Mark, with or without anyone else.
You have absolutely no rights to the Journey Mark and are not authorized to use the Journey Mark in any way. Effective immediately, you are no longer members of the band Journey and cannot perform under the name Journey.
If you act in contravention of our clients’ rights, please be advised that we will take all legal steps to protect the rights of our clients.
Nothing contained herein is intended to waive any and all rights of Mr. Cain and Mr. Schon, and all such rights and remedies are expressly reserved.”
You can read the whole complaint, the evidence against and see Steve Perry vote with Schon & Cain to maintain the business status quo.

Is NEAL SCHON'S JRNY Something To Watch For

It seems something has broken the camel's back in the Journey camp, with Neal Schon filling social media today with cryptic talk of inner turmoil in the world of Journey.
Although officially the word is "No", something is definitely transpiring between founding member Neal Schon and long time keyboardist Jonathan Cain.
It appears that Jonathan's marriage to high profile Pastor Paula White in 2015 is the catalyst. It is the third marriage for both.
At the time Cain said: “She gave me the news that God loved me and wanted his son back. She spoke to the king in me and gave me new hope I could get right with God. The God I had hungered for, the Father I had been missing.”
White remains the personal minister to President Trump and chairs his Evangelical Advisory Board. She became the first woman ever to pray the invocation at a presidential inauguration on Jan. 20.
Of his recent Christian solo album Cain stated: “This is my love letter to God. It’s my thanks for the grace He gives me.”
Shortly after marrying, Cain was caught up in a controversy when addressing a congregation both were preaching to, when he suggested methods for wives to get to know what their husband’s like, saying: “figure it out. Get a book, get some porn, do something. If he likes to watch porn, watch porn with him, you know what I mean…”
Now Neal has taken to Instagram and Twitter – under the recent new handle “Neal Schon’s JRNY” to post the following:
“Bringing it every night. I want to be elevated by whom I play with not feel like I've got cement shoes. If anyone is unhappy they are Not running My band then They should Leave. God has bigger plans.”
“Yes I've stated how I felt about mixing Religion and Politics and how our music is not of 1 religion - democratic or republican. This is and has been an issue with myself Mr Cain and his now wife since he married. I've had to fight this whole time to protect the Brand I built with Steve Perry way before Gregg and I picked Cain to replace himself when he wanted to retire from the road back then. Well frankly I'm tired of having to defend all by my self. Ross is no help. I continue to grow and be completely creative and want to take the band Neal Schon's JRNY on an exciting new trip musically. Yes we will always have all hits to play But there must be musical growth also. I also need to surround myself with people that care as I do. I'll never stop.”
“I've finally gotten to the point of Enough. Im a very patient person - so I've been told by many including Carlos Santana and he's said wow - How and Why do you do it ? I did it out of love but not receiving any back. They don't give a shit so now I don't either. Your skin becomes tough but it has to to endure ... bottom line I'll always be JRNY as it's been my baby from birth. Herbie and Steve Perry will tell you the same as he did at RRHOF  thank you Steve for the truth.”
“No worries. I will not cave about my beliefs or protecting Journey as I always have. I believe in God.”
Now a news item about the Woody Guthrie Center honouring Neal has been removed from all Google references and the originating news site, with Neal claiming jealousy and sabotage are at play. "Wow this national story has already been removed from google and channel 6 site here in Tulsa Oklahoma. This is totally criminal sabotage but it will not stop the actual ceremony tomorrow..."
As of right now a lot of fans are joining in the conversation to back Neal - an example of which is below.
Stay tuned for more…

JOURNEY: Gregg Rolie, Neal Schon, Steve Perry Reveal Hall Of Fame Career

Wednesday, November 26, 2014
Dallas, TX - March 30, 2017.  North American syndicated Rock radio show and website IN THE STUDIO with Redbeard: The Stories Behind History’s Greatest Rock Bands maps out Journey’s long road to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with a two-part, two week career-spanning radio special. 
From 1981 to 1986 the biggest band in America was Journey. This band from “the city by the bay” sold more than 30 million records in that short time. Millions of people have seen them perform live over years of nearly endless touring to this day. Journey songs became the soundtrack for a whole generation of fans “raised on radio” and for new generations of fans of TV shows like The Sopranos and Glee.  It’s hard to imagine anyone who has grown up in America over the last 40 years who has not been touched in some way by the music of Journey.
The musical Journey began in 1973 with two former members of Santana, Gregg Rolie and Neal Schon, looking to form an ambitious musical outfit to perform rock fusion and rule the live music circuit. There would be multiple member changes, but none more important than the addition of singer Steve Perry.  In Part 1 episode, Gregg, Neal and Steve speak with IN THE STUDIO producer and host Redbeard about the early incarnation of the band and the breakthrough success of their 1978 fourth album, Infinity.
“The real idea behind the band was ‘Let’s go play live’. We used to knock people out. In fact as (Journey’s manager) Herbie Herbert put it, we sold  more tickets than we did records then. People would come to see the band for the instrumentation and energy of it . It wasn’t following suit with anything else on the radio.”  - Gregg Rolie
“Everybody’s feeling at the time was, ‘Look, we’re all starving to death’, you know? And it’s time we gotta make a living at this or I was going to have to get a job selling ladies shoes or something. I wanted to play music and make a living at it.”  - Neal Schon
“I had no idea what I was in for. I really didn’tt realize what a real workhorse this band was until I’d say 178 shows later, that same tour, non stop. But I gotta tell you, I wouldn’t change one thing.”  -  Steve Perry
JOURNEY  Best Of  PART 1  /InTheStudio interview is available now to STREAM at:
Part 2 will be available next week at:



Facing Crossroads, JOURNEY Embraced With Open Arms On Escape

Wednesday, November 26, 2014

Dallas, TX - June 14, 2016.  North American syndicated Rock radio show and website InTheStudio: The Stories Behind History’s Greatest Rock Bands  explores an Eighties classic, Journey’s 1981 album Escape, on its thirty-fifth anniversary.

In every journey there are crossroads, pivotal moments where paths must be chosen, where there are opportunities to change direction or to go straight ahead. The rock band called Journey never stuck to the straight path through an odyssey of twists and turns, changes and certainly, crossroads.

The first change came in 1978 when Steve Perry joined the band as lead vocalist, transforming Journey from an improvisational progressive rock band into a mainstream commercial success.  In 1981 there was another turning point when keyboardist and songwriter Gregg Rolie, one of Journey’s original members, left the band. In came former Babys member Jonathan Cain, and his gift for melody, especially ballads, meshed perfectly with Steve Perry’s voice.

It was no accident that Journey’s first album with Jonathan Cain, Escape, went all the way to No. 1. Selling nearly ten million copies and staying in the Top 40 for more than a year, the band scored the hits, “Don’t Stop Believing”, “Who’s Cryin’ Now”, “Stone in Love” and Journey’s first # 1 hit “Open Arms”. 

Neal Schon, Steve Perry, and Jonathan Cain share with InTheStudio host Redbeard an in-depth look at the making of Escape, with the musical choices that ultimately underscored the success of this classic album.

“(Escape) was an ambitious broad stroke of the brush... It tried to cover a lot of territory. We could have been killed for it, but Journey was in the place where that statement could be made, musically. They had the freedom to actually make an artistic statement and be heard. People were listening.”   - Jonathan Cain

JOURNEY Escape @ 35 /InTheStudio interview is available now to STREAM at:

Direct Link to InTheStudio broadcast affiliate radio station list: “

Direct Link to JOURNEY website:

Direct Link to InTheStudio website: “

JOURNEY's STEVE SMITH Talks 2016-2017 Tour

Release Year: 
From STEVE SMITH'S facebook page today:

I have been invited to tour with Journey for the 2016-2017 touring season and I have agreed to play drums for the group during this period!

I’ve enjoyed working with Journey guitarist Neal Schon for many years and playing on his solo albums, including The Calling and his latest release Vortex. In fact, Neal and I still share the creative chemistry we had when I was a member of Journey. When we work in the studio on his music, it's essentially just the two of us, jamming, writing, arranging and recording.

Over the years, he has mentioned that he'd like to have me tour with Journey again. The invitation has always been appreciated but with my busy schedule always being booked at least a year in advance, the timing was never right. Some changes within the band have once again brought me the invitation to tour and this time we were able to plan in advance and work a Journey tour into my schedule.

Like an actor capable of playing a wide variety of roles, I'm a musician who enjoys, and is comfortable performing, diverse genres of music. My group Vital Information, as well as the other great jazz and world music artists that I tour and record with, remain a musical priority. I will also be performing with them during the next two years and by 2018 will resume my career full-time as a touring and recording jazz musician.

My decision to tour with Journey in 2016-2017 is based on many factors:

My relationship with Neal is strong and we enjoy playing together. I've been in touch with Jonathan Cain and Ross Valory and we have a good rapport both personally and musically. All four of us share a common history and have created some enduring music together. I've met and spent time with Arnel Pineda and have great respect for him both as a person and vocalist.

I am excited to revisit a role that was a formative part of my career, performing music that has touched many people for more than 30 years. My kids Ian, Elizabeth, Kasia and Zac have not seen me play with the group (Ian has but he was too young to remember), it will be fun to have them see me perform with the band. Finally, I can say "yes" to the many fans who have asked if I would tour with Journey again.

My hope is that Journey fans will appreciate a new line-up similar to the Escape and Frontiers era -- and will want to revisit this timeless music with me. By bringing my musical experience to the table along with the years that the members of Journey have spent touring, I'm sure this new incarnation of Journey will develop its own special magic. It's going to be amazing. I look forward to seeing all the fans on the road!



JOURNEY Recalls Drummer STEVE SMITH For 2016 Tour

Release Year: 
JOURNEY and THE DOOBIE BROTHERS will launch the San Francisco Fest 2016 tour on Thursday, May 12, again bringing together two of the iconic groups that helped define the San Francisco sound. The tour launches at the Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre in Irvine, California — with concerts scheduled through August 30, and includes special guest Dave Mason. A limited number of VIP packages will be available and include premium tickets, pre-show party, exclusive merchandise and more.
Tickets go on sale to the general public beginning Saturday, December 5. A fan pre-sale will be offered starting Monday, November 30.
Neal Schon (founding member and lead guitarist), original member Ross Valory (bass), and longtime members Jonathan Cain (keyboardist) and Arnel Pineda (lead singer), are welcoming virtuoso drummer Steve Smith back into JOURNEY, marking the first time he will perform with the band since 1998. Schon and Smith have always remained close friends and musical collaborators. Smith has lent his incredible talent to several of Schon's solo albums, including critically acclaimed "The Calling", and, most recently, "Vortex".
Schon was thrilled when Smith accepted his invitation to rejoin JOURNEY, exclaiming: "I'm so looking forward to the very exciting 2016 we have planned, starting with my 'Neal Vortex Schon' Japan tour in February and then our major summer tour with THE DOOBIE BROTHERS and Dave Mason. We will see you all soon!!!!"
THE DOOBIE BROTHERS' Tom Johnston (founding member, vocals/guitar), Patrick Simmons (founding member, vocals/guitar), and longtime member John McFee (guitars/strings/vocals) are adding LITTLE FEAT co-founder Bill Payne to their band on the 2016 tour. Payne performed on many of THE DOOBIE BROTHERS studio albums as well as on the road; a relationship the band is looking forward to rekindling.
"It's gonna be a great summer for fans of Bay Area music, and for guys like us who have the pleasure of teaming up with our good friends from JOURNEY and the Dave Mason band," said Tom Johnston and Patrick Simmons of THE DOOBIE BROTHERS. "We look forward to taking the stage with JOURNEY. We love their songs, and think we will all complement each other musically. It is going to be a powerful tour. We can't wait to share it with the fans!"
Tour dates:
May 12 - Irvine, CA - Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre
May 14 - Phoenix, AZ - Ak-Chin Pavilion
May 15 - Albuquerque, NM - Isleta Amphitheater
May 18 - Austin, TX - Austin360 Amphitheater
May 20 - Dallas, TX - Gexa Energy Pavilion
May 21 - Woodlands, TX - The Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion presented by Huntsman
May 23 - Wichita, KS - INTRUST Bank Arena
May 25 - Memphis, TN - FedEx Forum
May 27 - Indianapolis, IN - Indianapolis Motor Speedway
May 28 - Kansas City, KS - Sprint Center
May 31 - Rogers, AR - Walmart AMP
Jun. 02 - Birmingham, AL - Oak Mountain Amphitheatre
Jun. 04 - Charlotte, NC - PNC Music Pavilion
Jun. 05 - Raleigh, NC - Walnut Creek Amphitheatre
Jun. 08 - Atlanta, GA - Aaron's Amphitheatre at Lakewood
Jun. 10 - Tampa, FL - MIDFLORIDA Credit Union Amp.
Jun. 11 - W. Palm Beach, FL - Perfect Vodka Amphitheatre
Jun. 22 - Bangor, ME - Darling's Waterfront Pavilion
Jun. 24 - Bethel, NY - Bethel Woods Center for the Arts
Jun. 25 - Holmdel, NJ - PNC Banks Art Center
Jun. 27 - Wantagh, NY - Nikon at Jones Beach Theater
Jun. 29 - Cuyahoga Falls, OH - Blossom Music Center
Jul. 01 - Virginia Beach, VA - Farm Bureau Live at Virginia Beach
Jul. 02 - Bristow, VA - Jiffy Lube Live
Jul. 05 - Saratoga Springs, NY - Saratoga Performing Arts Center
Jul. 07 - Toronto, ON - Molson Canadian Amphitheatre
Jul. 09 - Darien, NY - Darien Lake Performing Arts Center
Jul. 10 - Mansfield, MA - Xfinity Center
Jul. 13 - Syracuse, NY - Lakeview Amphitheater
Jul. 15 - Camden, NJ - BB&T Pavilion
Jul. 16 - Burgettstown, PA - First Niagara Pavilion
Jul. 27 - Nashville, TN - Ascend Amphitheater
Jul. 29 - Cincinnati, OH - Riverbend Music Center
Jul. 30 - Maryland Heights, MO - Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre
Aug. 02 - Grand Rapids, MI - Van Andel Arena
Aug. 04 - Clarkston, MI - DTE Energy Music Theatre
Aug. 06 - Omaha, NE - CenturyLink Center
Aug. 07 - Des Moines, IA - Wells Fargo Arena
Aug. 09 - St. Paul, MN - Xcel Energy Center
Aug. 11 - Sioux Falls, SD - Denny Sanford PREMIER Center
Aug. 13 - Tinley Park, IL - Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre
Aug. 16 - Oklahoma City, OK - Chesapeake Energy Arena
Aug. 17 - Little Rock, AR - Verizon Arena
Aug. 20 - Denver, CO - Pepsi Center
Aug. 21 - West Valley City, UT - USANA Amphitheatre
Aug. 23 - Auburn, WA - White River Amphitheatre
Aug. 25 - Ridgefield, WA - Sunlight Supply Amphitheater
Aug. 27 - Las Vegas, NV - Mandalay Bay Events Center
Aug. 28 - Fresno, CA - Save Mart Center
Aug. 30 - Chula Vista, CA - Sleep Train Amphitheatre




"Two weeks ago, I, Deen Catronovo, made a plea deal with Salem, Oregon prosecutors. I plead guilty to one count of coercion, one count of unlawful use of a weapon, two counts of assault 4, and 2 counts of menacing. Ref: Case #15CR23974 in Marion County Court."
"Anyone who witnessed the events remains adamant that my abrasive behavior stemmed from the fact that I was at a drug-induced psychosis level of intoxication at the time of the occurrences. Otherwise, I am an easy-going guy who loves being a father and a musician."
"After my Indictment in June, I completed a 75-day inpatient treatment program at the Hazelden Betty Ford Springbrook Center, the most comprehensive drug abuse treatment center in the State of Oregon. It was at Hazelden that I quickly realized how dire the situation had become. I made a vow to myself and my family to not only stay sober but to dedicate time telling my story, speaking to promote sobriety, being a good example to my sons and advocating for the rights and assistance of domestic violence victims. I hope by telling my story I can help prevent someone else from making the same mistakes I did."
"Taking into consideration that I have been able to stay completely sober since my Indictment in June as well as the fact that I have continued domestic violence and drug counseling without any difficulties, Judge Jamese Rhodes sentenced me to four years of probation. The probation requires me to continue the domestic violence and drug abuse counseling."
"At the sentencing I apologized to my ex-fiancé, Deidra, and her family for the hurt I have put them through. I continue to wish Deidra the best. I know Deidra is not at fault for my behavior nor the consequences I have suffered because of it. Again, I want to apologize to Deidra, her family, my family, my band-mates in Journey and the fans of Journey. I’m sorry I let you all down. I have hit my bottom and I’m taking the necessary steps to ensuring that this never happens again."
"As devastating as this was for me it was far more devastating to Deidra and our children. Had it not been for her calling the police and the intervention of the prosecutors I’d probably be dead. 
I’m going to focus on my family, finding happiness in sobriety and helping others who might be going down the wrong path to avoid destruction. For now I’m taking it one day at a time and looking to discover what new path God has planned for me."

DEEN CASTRONOVO Pleads Guilty; Handed 4yr Probation

Release Year: 
Deen Castronovo is lucky not to be facing jail time after pleeding guilty to domestic violence charges in court earlier today:
Journey drummer Deen Castronovo was handed a suspended sentence and four years of probation after pleading guilty to domestic violence crimes on Monday, Oct. 12.
Castronovo, 51, pleaded guilty to two counts of fourth-degree assault constituting domestic violence, two counts of menacing constituting domestic violence, unlawful use of a weapon and coercion.
If he violates the terms of his probation, a sentence of five years and five months in prison could  be imposed.
While on probation, Castronovo cannot enter into a romantic relationship without permission from his probation officer, use controlled substances or alcohol, contact the victim, leave Oregon or enter into any bars unless for employment purposes, among other things.
Marion County Circuit Judge Jamese Rhoades also required Castronovo to undergo counseling for domestic violence and drug abuse.
For the record - here is a post from Deen's ex-wife:
Shelly Baughman Castronovo writes:
I feel like the media has made people into sheep! The truth... Deidra Witmer the woman who accused Deen of these charges has had a pattern of of bad relationships. They pushed each other...yes...but she was on a flight to Cabo the day after the arrest. She was riding horses on the beach an partying 2 days after that. Deen was in a toxic relationship.
...he at the height of drug abuse...she...with 3 dui's. He did violate the no contact order due to drugs but she has been in fights with prior issues with the law except with her. The same can not be said of her. I am tired of people villafying a man I have known and loved for 33 years...married for 10. He is the father of my son and another beautiful boy. PLEASE don't be so quick to cast the first stone! He was wrong in pushing her...she was wrong on pushing back!!!! He has a beautiful heart and has been clean for 104 days. Please don't judge what you don't know!

What Is The Status Of Drummer DEEN CASTRONOVO In JOURNEY

Release Year: 
Drummer Deen Castronovo has been stood aside from his role in JOURNEY while he faces domestic violence charges in his home state of Oregon.
Some media outlets have been reporting that Deen has been ‘sacked’ or ‘kicked out’ of the band, replaced with Neal Schon’s Vortex drummer Omar Hakim for the current and upcoming Canadian dates.
But at this time, Deen remains part of Journey and his absence is currently only temporary.
The official comment on Deen’s status is “no comment”, but I can suggest that his arrest is being treated very seriously by the Journey camp. However, it is hoped that Deen is found innocent of the charges he faces and should that happen, his path back to the drum stood should be unimpeded.

JOURNEY Adds NEAL “VORTEX” SCHON As Special Guest On Canadian Tour

Release Year: 
Omar Hakim Tapped to Play Drums for both JOURNEY and NEAL “VORTEX” SCHON
NEAL “VORTEX” SCHON has been added as the special guest to JOURNEY’s upcoming Canadian tour, which launches Monday, July 6 in Winnipeg Manitoba with concerts scheduled through August 3 in St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador. This tour marks the first time the American rock greats perform a Canada-only tour, including markets in which band has never previously performed such as Penticton; Prince George; and Dawson Creek, British Columbia; and Lethbridge, Alberta. See below for a complete list of tour dates. Tickets are on sale now - visit for complete tour and ticketing information.
NEAL "VORTEX" SCHON features Schon on guitar, Omar Hakim on drums, Rachel Z Hakim on keyboards and Jerry Brooks on bass. NEAL “VORTEX” SCHON will perform selections from Schon’s brand new, all-instrumental 2-CD album, Vortex, released June 23 through the Mascot Label Group. The albumfeaturing Neal Schon on guitars and bass, drummer Steve Smith, GRAMMY-winning keyboardist Jan Hammer, and keyboardist Igor Len - utilizes rock as its foundation, and embraces elements of jazz, classical and world music in an 18-track, sonically explosive collection of original compositions.  The music of Vortex came to life at Berkeley’s Fantasy Studios, Schon’s preferred spot for recording since Journey cut the 10-times-platinum number-one album Escape there in 1981.
Blazing hotter than ever with the lineup of founder Neal Schon (lead guitar and backing vocals), Jonathan Cain (keyboards and backing vocals), co-founder Ross Valory (bass and backing vocals), and lead vocalist Arnel Pineda (who was discovered by Schon), Journey has created some of the best-known songs in rock, such as “Wheel In The Sky,” “Separate Ways,” and “Faithfully.”  Neal Schon recruited Omar Hakim to play drums for Journey’s recent Hollywood Bowl Opening Night concert, the band’s July 4th performance in Provo, Utah, and the Canadian tour.
The Hollywood Bowl, one of the most iconic concert venues in the world, launched its 94th season with its 2015 Opening Night Concert featuring JOURNEY who performed with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra and Youth Orchestra Los Angeles (YOLA), on June 20. The Bowl’s opening night is traditionally a fundraiser for the Los Angeles Philharmonic’s many education and community programs, which serve more than 150,000 youth, families and teachers every year, and this year it raised a record $1.6 million; the previous best was $1.4 million in 2011.
Following the Hollywood Bowl opener, and Hakim’s debut with Journey, Neal Schon stated, “I'm very happy I was able to bring Omar Hakim in to help us pull together a very elaborate and complex show at the last minute. It was a nearly impossible feat, and tall order for anyone, but with Omar’s musical integrity and talent, we pulled it off and had a blast! Glad to know I've still got the ears and now I'm 2 for 2: first was finding Arnel and now, recruiting Omar Hakim.”
Over the years JOURNEY has earned multiple accolades, including 19 Top 40 singles; producing 25 Gold and Platinum albums; and receiving a Diamond certification for its Greatest Hits album, marking U.S. sales in excess of 15 million. In 2011, they drew nearly a million fans to their Eclipse World Tour and was awarded the prestigious "Legend Of Live Award" at the Billboard Touring Awards in honor of their significant and lasting contributions to live music and the touring business, and in acknowledgement of their commitment to the fans and the art of performing live.
The group’s seminal anthem - “Don’t Stop Believin’” - is the top-selling digital catalog track inhistory, after being featured in the last scene of the electrifying series finale of HBO's ‘The Sopranos’  and then reaching another level of stratospheric success when it was covered by the cast of FOX's wildly successful series ‘Glee.’  Three decades after its original release, "Don't Stop Believin'” has reached a new generation of young fans welcoming this legendary band as it continues to bring its signature sound of classic hits around the world.
The intensely creative guitar giant, Neal Schon, has always had an innate ability to make glorious music. He began playing at age five and was inspired by soul vocalists like Aretha Franklin and Gladys Knight, and blues and jazz guitarists ranging from B.B. King Albert King, and Eric Clapton to Wes Montgomery. When Schon was just 15 years old, Carlos Santana invited him to join his band. Schon’s recording debut was on the classic 1971 album Santana III. He played the solo on the LP’s hit single,“Everybody’s Everything.” Recently Schon  completed the album Santana IV with Carlos Santana, co-writing songs and playing guitar. Additionally, Journey, co-headlined with Santana on Carlos’ recent homecoming concerts in Mexico.
6-July                         Winnipeg, MB                      MTS Centre
8- July                       Calgary, AB                           Fort Calgary – Stampede Roundup
10-July                       Penticton, BC                       South Okanagan Events Centre
11-July                       Vancouver, BC                     Rogers Arena
13-July                       Victoria, BC                          Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre
15-July                       Prince George, BC               CN Centre
16-July                       Dawson Creek, BC               EnCana Events Centre
18-July                       Edmonton, AB                     Rexall Place
19-July                       Lethbridge, AB                     ENMAX Centre
21-Jul                         Regina, SK                             Brandt Centre
22-Jul                        Saskatoon, SK                      SaskTel Centre
25-Jul                         Hamilton, ON                      FirstOntario Centre
26-Jul                        Kingston, ON                        Rogers K-Rock Centre
28-Jul                        Montréal, QC                        Centre Bell
30-Jul                        Moncton, NB                        Moncton Coliseum
31-Jul                         Dartmouth, NS                    Alderney Landing
2-Aug                         St. John’s, NL                       Mile One Centre
3-Aug                         St. John’s, NL                       Mile One Centre
For more information, visit:


Release Year: 
NEAL SCHON has posted on the JOURNEY facebook page, news that they will take OMAR HAKIM on the road with them for the next set of dates in repalce of Deen Castronovo, who is dealing with domestic violence charges back at home.
"We Journey have made the decision to have Omar Hakim play drums for the band’s upcoming U.S. concerts (Hollywood Bowl on Saturday, June 20 and the Stadium of Fire in Provo, Utah on Saturday, July 4), as well as the band's Canadian tour (July 6 – August 3), due to Deen Castronovo’s pending issues. We are very grateful to Omar filling in with his musical excellence."

The Former Lead Singer Of JOURNEY, That Never Was

Release Year: 
The headline reads “Hard to believe a Burlington boy was the lead singer of the iconic rock band Journey, but Andy K Avery was just that…”
Except he wasn’t.
Andy K Avery tours as a Christian artist and speaker and is involved in substance abuse counselling.
Andy is promoted as “becoming an addict to drugs, alcohol…eventually landed himself in federal prison. Today, Avery travels to prisons, churches and schools to minister to kids and adults.”
Now that’s obviously a very positive thing and is not any part of the issue being addressed here.
The problem is that in the same bio text Andy promotes himself as a former lead singer of Journey.
The following is typical of the text used to promote himself, text found on multiple websites, multiple interviews and newspaper articles:
Andy Avery, a former lead singer of the rock band Journey….talking about his life and testimony. Avery joined the band in 1989 after lead singer Steve Perry was unable to perform.”
As an explanation for that stand in performance you can hear Andy himself state (Link 1 below) that “Steve Perry had some health problems…” (1.40) and he sang for the band on one gig.
Further to that (in Link 2) he claims he was “in the process of taking over as lead singer of Journey…”
And this: “After going to rehab more than once, he returned to the music world and was given the opportunity to fill in for the lead singer of Journey. He sang one concert, overdosed and lost his voice.”
He has been all over Christian talk back radio and various local press promoting his time with Journey. In Link 1 at the 4.15 mark he answers this question from the DJ- “Do you keep in contact with members of Journey” with this startling claim:
“No, in fact the only person I talk to ironically is Steve Perry himself and we have become good friends….he supports me 100%...It’s a wonderful relationship and for a long time I wasn’t even allowed to say my testimony, for 15 or 20 years I wasn’t allowed. Only over the last few years I have been given permission to publicise it, through the band’s management – as long as I’m helping kids and doing things like that…they support me on that.”
Yet another promotional excerpt; “Andy has led a very interesting life, singing in rock and roll bands like Journey, Head East, and Smoke House. He’s also opened for Kiss, Bon Jovi, and many others. But according to Andy, the best time of his life followed his pledge to Christ when he started using his singing gifts to advance the kingdom. If you have heard Lee Greenwood sing "God Bless the USA," you have heard Andy Avery. He sang the demo for the song that resulted in the record company signing Greenwood. Andy now travels the country, performing and leading worship for one purpose only: GOD. Andy’s latest adventure is "A Tribute to Journey" tour, as he is the former lead singer of that group.”
And yet again: “Once upon a time Andy Avery was chosen to be the lead singer of the band Journey.  That’s right.  JOURNEY!  I had the honor to meet Andy, sit down with him, and have an awesome conversation.  Andy has an amazing story.  One that you’ll want to hear….”
And if that’s not enough evidence of a calculated publicity campaign, there’s this:
“Andy Avery was the lead singer for the group Smokehouse before getting opportunities to fill in for Journey in Steve Perry’s absence. When Perry left the group, Avery was approached about becoming a member of the band, but believed that his past record of drug and alcohol abuse while in that industry was not a temptation he needed, choosing rather to grow his faith and family.
Music critics acknowledge that Avery sounds strikingly similar to Perry. Avery will perform several of the signature Journey songs, while also sharing Christian music and testimony.  He travels full time and is also a performer for Royal Caribbean Cruises.”
So those are the facts being touted, but time now to look at the actual truth.
First – Andy picked an unfortunate year to claim working with Journey. The band wasn’t even active at that time as just about every fan of the group knows.
The guys last toured in 1987 before taking a hiatus that would only be broken in 1991 for the Bill Graham Memorial.
1989 was of course the year Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain were part of Bad English’s chart topping run and subsequent tour.
But we do know that strange things have happened off the record and behind the scenes at times, so I contacted all parties involved for comment.
Neal Schon: “Never heard of him” and “this is bullshit and should be taken down.”
Journey management confirmed that this person was completely unknown to them and there was no negotiations whatsoever with him.
Andy is heavily promoting some upcoming shows with John Schlitt and John Elefante. So I reached out to John who added this:
“This situation has really disturbed me and I called Andy and had a fairly lengthy talk with him and told him to cease and desist the Journey thing ASAP!! He's just the opening act for me and John Schlitt.”
Of course, it is only fair to allow Andy himself to have his say, so I contacted him via his Facebook pages ( / ) and received the following replies:
“Gene Simmons was my manager and when I messed up on drugs my career was over and he kept all my music ... I was in Smokehouse for 8 years and toured with kiss Bon Jovi and many other big acts  ...I auditioned for Journey and landed the gig spent all the up front money on drugs and overdosed ..end of my career ... God has given me my voice back and now I travel and doing and minister to kids ... The ppl that made the poster announced it wrong in which I'm sorry ... my testimony is clear when I give it ... Journey has had 7 diff sonnets that were hired and never toured and one made a cd that never got released …
Also please keep in mind that this was done through my agent at the time tel star ... we were all so messed up on drugs that is very hard to attach what was real and timeline ...The only thing I testify to the kids about is the almost made it story ... the agents in particular have asked me not to mention there names ... I never bill myself as former lead singer ... I promise you i am working  hard at correcting things  staying with dropping my pr person whom I've explained this to many times ...”
When I replied stating that this doesn’t explain the “gig” and could he provide more information, I got this:
“No gig…I was on my way with my agent that fronted allot of money and I woke up 3 months later coming out of a coma in Buena Park ... I only sing Journey songs to lead up to that story ... again sorry for the confusion. We bill ourselves in concert as Wheel in the sky a journey tribute ... Proverbs says God's time is like a wheel in the sky”
And regarding the Steve Perry friendship: “I did meet him long ago and we hit it off very well ... I wasn't the best of ppl back then ... I've worked really hard to get my life in order the last 20 years.”
The only problem here is that the radio interview mentioning the Perry bond was from 2014.
To give Andy the final say: “I'm just a has been, sooner trying to help kids ...”
In that regard, I hope Andy succeeds and wish him all the best. Safe to say that he won’t be boasting of any involvement with Journey in the future.

JOURNEY To Las Vegas For 9 Show Residency

Wednesday, April 29, 2015
APRIL 29 - MAY 16
Tickets on sale Friday, Jan. 16 at 10 a.m.
LAS VEGAS, January 6, 2015: Journey makes its way to The Joint inside Hard Rock Hotel & Casino for a nine-show residency, Journey Las Vegas, from Wednesday, April 29 to Saturday, May 16.
Journey is blazing hotter than ever with the lineup of founder Neal Schon (lead guitar and backing vocals), Jonathan Cain (keyboards and backing vocals), co-founder Ross Valory (bass and backing vocals), Deen Castronovo (drums, percussion and backing vocals) and Arnel Pineda (lead vocals). Through persistence and raw talent, the band has reached rare heights by selling more than 15 million copies of its Greatest Hits album, earning a total of 19 Top 40 singles, receiving a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, producing 25 Gold and Platinum albums and now headlining its first-ever residency at The Joint.
"We are looking forward to bringing it to you in Las Vegas during our residency at The Joint," said Schon. "See you soon!"
Since its formation in 1973, Journey has kept the music alive with classic-rock radio airplay and a touring schedule unlike any other. TV series such as FOX's "Glee" and HBO's "The Sopranos" have also made the group's song, "Don't Stop Believin'," a sensation decades after its release.
"The Joint is known worldwide for bringing the biggest artists into an intimate musical playground," said Chas Smith, vice president of entertainment for Hard Rock Hotel & Casino. "We're excited to add Journey to our list of legendary resident acts that have performed at this venue."
"Journey is an iconic band and their songs resonate with music enthusiasts across the board," remarked Bobby Reynolds, vice president of booking for AEG Live Las Vegas. "Fans will hear all of Journey's timeless hits at The Joint. We cannot wait to offer concertgoers this epic experience."
Show dates:
Wednesday, April 29
Friday, May 1
Saturday, May 2
Wednesday, May 6
Friday, May 8
Saturday, May 9
Wednesday, May 13
Friday, May 15
Saturday, May 16
Tickets to Journey Las Vegas start at $59.50 (plus applicable service fees) and are on sale Friday, Jan. 16 at 10 a.m. PST at the Hard Rock Hotel Box Office, online at or by calling 888-9-AXS-TIX. For Journey VIP packages including premier seats, exclusive gifts, pre-show receptions and more, please visit
Journey's fan club presale starts Wednesday, Jan. 7 at 7 a.m. PST; purchasers will be automatically entered to win a PRS guitar autographed by the entire band. Journey fan club members may also enter the drawing (no purchase necessary) by visiting An AMEX presale starts Thursday, Jan. 8 at 10 a.m. PST. All presales are run via




Thursday, June 12, 2014

Neal Schon: Doing It His Way

Guitarist Neal Schon makes his claim for Guitar Hero status on the new Journey album Eclipse. I talked to Neal just prior to the band hitting the road in the USA for their 2011 Tour - Leg 1.


Hello Neal!
Andrew! How are you, buddy?

I'm doing ok. How are you?
I'm doing good, man. We're just, you know, booking out here, trying to keep up with this, man; it's a lot of work! You know-the travel.

We're just in from Italy-last night from Milan. We had a great show there. We just did sound check and I did another interview for Guitar Player Magazine. And so, here I am! I've been ready to do you for a while but I understand you had some other things going on.

Oh yeah, sorry. I flaked out on you a couple of times there—held up and then kids. You know what it's like with 3 young kids. (laughs)
I understand. It happens.

So thank you at least for staying patient and good to talk to you again.
Same here!

Yeah! Are you completely sick of talking about this album yet?
(long pause) No. But I've seen a ration of shit that you are getting already!! (laughing!!)

From EVERYBODY!! You know. It's a catch 22; it's all I can tell you. It's like, if we……I LOVE the record and I know that you love the record…

Yeah, I sure do.
.. and now I'm like the devil in everybody's eyes because it doesn't sound like our older stuff…but if we make a record that sounds like our older stuff then they'd say, well why can't they do something different. So, it's…you always want the opposite. They can always criticize.

You're never going to please everybody and if you wanna play the older stuff, you've already got it - go play it.
Exactly what I thought.
I'm sorry, man. I'm eating like a little piece of candy here cuz I'm just dragging ass and I want to wake up for you here.

Ok, so you've got the album out. A lot of people really love it and get it, which is great.
Yeah, and what I've been talking to management about is that we need to get more awareness that it's actually out. It was cool to come here to Europe and do all these dates in South America and stuff but, in a sense, I think that we could have done a bit more damage if we had stayed home and did more TV and made people aware that it's even out.
I think that things are going to pick up. It's been known to happen to other records too, in the past. It just takes while to work things. We do have some TV coming up and I think that's going to help out tremendously.

I definitely think that the record has legs so that's not the problem. We can keep coming with the tunes off it and, you know, I feel good about it. The whole record industry is in a different place than it's ever been before, like always…

Yeah. (laughing)
(laughs)… like every year it changes and it seems like it gets worse; but that's just the nature of the beast. If you get dealt lemons then you've got to make lemonade.

You're one of the few bands that have been around, virtually for every change in the music industry (laughs) since 45 singles almost.
Yeah. Yeah (laughs)

You've been there the whole time-you've seen it all.
Yeah, I get asked the questions all the time – in every interview - like, 'How do you suggest for people to get new music out there…'
I'm like, you know what? I have no frickin clue. Just PLAY LIVE!!

Nobody has any idea these days. It's tough.
Play live, play in front of other people and hopefully word of mouth spreads. I don't think there is any foolproof plan or any perfect plan to get things out anymore—there isn't.

No, there isn't. Nobody has the answer because nobody's been getting rich.
No. They are all searching for it. It's terrible for new artists because I feel bad for my son too because he's a great guitarist and he's trying to get things going and it's like everybody's looking to me like, why can't you do that for him! (laughing) And I'm like, I can get him all the gear, I can get him the studio time, I can get him this, I can get him that; I can't get him a record deal.
I said, Miles, you gotta get out there and just play and so that's what he's doing.

So he's out there and he's playing and he's going at it—and making quite a little name for himself.

Yeah. Absolutely.
And so that's what ya gotta do. You know, you gotta pay your dues and there's no way getting around it. There's no quick way.

Well that's what you guys did.
Well, yeah. I mean, there's a quick way. When labels existed, and they heard somebody they liked and they'd come out and do a massive push and stick a ton of money into promoting and everything like videos….They'd spend all the bands' money so that they're never ever gonna make any money (laughing) in the next 10 years. (laughing)

(laughing) yeah!
You know? But they're thinking to themselves, Well, it doesn't matter because they're not gonna last that long we'll drop them before that. It's a very crude industry.

It is.
But, um, I'm really grateful just to be able to a part of it still and do what we do.

It's kind of amazing isn't it really? I mean, it's a testament to you guys and your stamina, your personal, physical and mental stamina…
It's definitely a test, you know? I mean, we haven't even started the states yet, obviously. I've gotta tell you-the South American tour was grueling. It really was. It was a hard schedule to keep up with, mainly because of the travel.
We had to fly everywhere and it was the whole crew and the band. All of our equipment went underneath the plane with us to every city that we went to…or country. Every 2 days it felt like it was 9 or 11 hour travel days.

So, I felt like I was going from Ashcroft to London every 2 days.
We came down with some really weird infection. Our manager, John and myself. We got weird ear infection—I think from the water. We had a really bad ear infection, sinus infection and it went into the chest. I was on the heaviest antibiotics I've ever been on for like a month straight and still it didn't go away.

So I was like trying to travel and keep up with it at the same time, you know, and it's like rough when you are not actually well.
And so, right now, everybody's good! And that's the way we're trying to keep it. We're like….. we constantly meet a lot of fans and washing hands and (laughing)…

You really are still a hands on band, aren't you, when you're on the road? You know, meet and greets and stuff?

Hello? Sorry! It dropped out.

No worries at all.
I was talking and talking and talking and then I go, Hello????

There was nobody there!

So was I! (laughing) What I was saying was you're still a very hands on band when you get on the road, aren't you? With fans and stuff?
I think so- yeah. You know, we try to be as much as we can—meet and greets every night. It's tough sometimes to keep up with that. It's not that you don't want to meet the fans; it's just burnt, you know? Burnt. And we've been doing it and they haven't been really super big meet and greets so it's like a little bit easier. You take a fast picture and meet some people and say 'hello' and then pretty much we're on stage after that.
And so, but when you're traveling… we did like 7 hours last night travel and then tonight we've got 9 hours on the bus. Some people are not sleeping on the bus and I'm kinda up and down. Arnel doesn't like—he hasn't been sleeping on the bus.

And so, you're trying to catch up with your Z's and keep everything in focus.

Yeah. It's tough on the road-people don't appreciate how hard it is.
Well, they don't do the work, that's the thing. They like to criticize it but look! (laughing) 'well, it wasn't as good as this and it wasn't as good as that' but if they had known the circumstances - what everybody has gone through in the last few months, you go, Oh-well now I can understand.
It's always like that.

Tell me, back on the point you made originally, you were saying that you want to give a bigger splash for Eclipse in the U.S. and you're going to ramp that up. You are obviously keeping track of the sales figures – are you a little bit concerned that they're lower than expected?
You know…well…..we had so much going on around the time that Revelation was released…we had a lot of TV exposure.

You were everywhere!
I know! We were on Ellen Degeneres; we were on Oprah. You know, Oprah was the thing that like really kicked everything off.

And, that's what everybody gets the awareness from. You can't buy advertising time like that. And especially if you can sound good live, I mean-that's the thing. We do sound good live and so…nobody's afraid to play it live on TV. So, we're working on that right now-just getting more TV exposure. I think that is going to kick everything in the butt.

And, you've got another long tour, haven't you.
Well, we're going to be out for 2 years.

That's amazing, isn't it? How many bands could actually do that?
Yeah. (pause) Well, we'll see if we make it! (Laughing)

(laughing) Hahaha! You'll just pull up stumps halfway through and go, eh, that's enough.
(pause) No, it's hard to do that –you can't do that—once you're committed , you're committed, you know?

But we are committed to 2 years and worldwide. We've been off a lot this time and, usually, we'll just do the States and we'll go over to Japan and that's it. We played a couple of shows in South America before when Arnel first came in the band but it was easy. You're in and out. This time there's…you know the UK was great and we had a great time in the UK this time and we have so many great fans there—and enthusiastic audiences. We just had great shows there.

I had great feedback on that –I heard really great feedback.
Yeah. It was really great; we loved it there. The band just seems to be getting bigger and bigger over there, which is so crazy to me—this many years later!


Hello? You there?
Yeah. I'm here, Andrew.

It comes and goes. We'll deal with it.
You've put in the hard yards over in Europe, haven't you? It's what, you're 3rd or 4th tour back there, isn't it?

Um, in Germany?….I think it's the 3rd - I'm not really sure. But, yeah, this is a different market - Germany is. So far, some of the smaller dates that we've played are… they're good but, so far, I prefer playing the festivals…

Yeah ok.
Like we did last time. And, I just like getting in front of more people. You know, actually, we did a lot of damage last time---in a good way.

Just being able to get in the middle slot or a special guest and play a little bit shorter set but just charge it up in front of a lot of people. We worked for a lot of great reviews and took a lot of fans with us. So, I'm looking forward to these bigger festivals that are coming up here shortly.

You're coming off of an album that sold 800,000 units in the U.S. I mean, who the hell does that these days?!!
(softly laughs) I don't know.

(laughing) How did that happen?
(laughing) I don't know anybody that sells records at all, it's like crazy: except, for catalog stuff - older catalog stuff - like our older stuff. The classic rock stuff that's been there forever; it just keeps on selling albums.
That stuff's never going anywhere.

Good for us!!

A new record-a new studio album sold that many units. It's just unbelievable.
Yeah! But you know what is funny about this record is even though I don't think the units are out there, I think they've downloaded it because everyone is singing the songs in the audience when we play the live stuff. (laughing)

(laughing) Ok.
So, they know the songs—they do! They know the lyrics and they know the songs. They're singing right along with it. I'm like, wow—this is weird! How can they know it?

There's a few bands on the road at the moment that are taking new albums out with them and playing the new songs and I'm really glad that they're doing that.
Yeah. I mean, for us, Andrew, I feel that if we don't do that then we're just kind of sitting in neutral and resting on our laurels, which we could have easily done anyway. We could have just played our greatest hits forever and forgot about ever making a new record and forget about being critiqued for it, you know?

I think we're real ballsy about where we went here. You know, Jon and I absolutely agreed on where we wanted to go after we finally talked about it. It was just kind of like a no brainer because we had all this other material sitting there; we had so many great ballads and they're all sitting there and how many can we really use in a show?
Not very many. You know, you have so many minutes to play in a show. It's not like we're doing a 3 hour festival or 2½ hours or even 2 hours, you know?
We've got a lot of stuff to play and a lot of hits to play and people expect to hear that; there's no getting away from that ever!

Nor do I want to! I love the fact that people want to hear it!

Oh absolutely!
If they didn't want to hear it, then I'd be going, Why do I want to play?
They still love it so, yeah, I want to play it.
And we're mixing the new stuff in and it's going over well! I mean, you know, nobody's sitting down! I remember the days when you'd play something new and everybody sits down…and they kind of like fall asleep for 4 minutes or however long the song is and then they get back up on their feet when you play something familiar.

I saw you guys in L.A. in 2003 and you did Higher Place and I think I was the only person standing in the whole building! (laughing)
Yeah, I mean, it hasn't been like that with this record so far.
Everywhere that we've played and when we were playing the longer show, which wasn't a real long show but some of the South American days, we played 5 tracks…5 new tracks? And nobody sat! Nobody sat!

The whole time. And they dug it and they didn't even know it. That's a good sign in itself, right there, you know?


Absolutely. So, where did the idea for the album come from? I mean, you've been promising to rock it up for a while. Is this like a continuation of from where you were going with Planet US and Soul SirkUS? That desire to really turn it up?
I don't think so. I mean, I think it sounds like Journey.

Of course! It certainly sounds like Journey: I meant the heaviness of it and the attitude.
Well…(pause)..I mean, I don't think it's heavy metal by any means. It's very melodic still but it's guitar driven…and some of the grooves are like bigger than the usual stuff that we do. It's just not as much pop - it's more rock - it's more of a rock record.

Oh I know.
Yeah, well so do I! That's no secret to anybody; I always talk about it – that I like to rock and I'm…


You know, I was talking for at least 5 minutes…

Oh no!!
…and then you weren't there and I was like, I don't know what's going on. It's pissing rain here right now.

Well, you know what? It's pissing rain here as well and I had a black out- I lost ALL power including my phone connection.
Oh, ok. Well, we're driving back now; we're going to the hotel. Maybe the reception will be better.

Sorry. Where were we?
Um……I don't know where we were.

What pearls of wisdom did I miss out on there?
Um… you know, I don't know. I was babblin, man. I couldn't—unless I recorded it and listened to it—I couldn't tell you what I was talking about!! (laughing)

You asked me a question and I was answering but I don't remember where we left off but it was like 10 minutes ago.

(still laughing). Ok….so it's time to record a new album and you've obviously got something on your mind. How did you bring it up with Jon about style and what you wanted to do?
Well, you know, we just talked about it and said, 'Look, is there really a reason to repeat ourselves here and keep writing exactly the same stuff on every record?'
I mean, really, is there a need to do that? We've all these new areas we can go—Arnel's coming into his own. He has no brakes; we don't have brakes with him so let's just experiment a bit. I look at this record, Eclipse, like it's our new Frontier record-like Frontiers one was for us, when we put it out with Steve.

That was a totally experimental record at the time and I think some of this stuff is even more straight up. But, there was nothing wrong with it back then; I don't think there's anything wrong with it now.

I think it's a lot…what's different about the record is that it's a long play record-you listen from one end to the other and it's not like you pick out this song and then you pick out that song and you have those 2 saved…and everybody's going to have their favs but really I mean, and unless I'm wrong, that's the way I listen to it and I like it. I think it's got a great flow and musically it goes up and down, like it should and it keeps my attention, which is hard to do, man! Honest to God!

I love the 'journey' of an album—pardon the pun. I love 45 or 50 minutes of an emotional ride; I don't want to hear 4 minute singles all the time.
Yeah. I mean, those are great too but they also easy to come up with and we have a lot of those already. You know, I mean, we've got tons of hits like that and so we're trying to move forward here and show some light of existence and new area and not just repeating the same thing over and over and over - move the chords around, move the melody around, do the same groove, don't change anything up too much. That's the bit, you know.

Well, on the positive side of the reviews, that where you've gained a lot of respect, you know, for not taking it easy—for not sitting back and just being lazy or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah some people are getting it. I've read a lot of really great reviews and a few bad ones, but you've got to expect both sides—like I said, you can't please everyone…but the ones that do get it, absolutely get it.

Yeah, well as much shit as I get on the message boards, I like to think that I got it so…(laughs)
You did and you're catching a lot of shit for it, too!! (laughing)

It's ok! I don't care either!

What do you from here? Have you got a long term plan as far as what you'd like to write next or do you just forget about it for a couple of years while you're on the road?
You know what? We're not…I'm not thinking about that right now. We're just starting touring here and we have a very young record. (laughs) Some people are cutting the legs off already and saying, it's done! It hasn't started yet-it hasn't begun yet…that's the way I look at it, especially when we're going to support it for 2 years on tour. Things just haven't started really yet.

I agree completely and I only asked that because I wondered if you actually set out a plan or you just take it as you feel at the time and live in the moment.
Right. That's it. I mean, that's all you can do-play the cards. You know what I mean? You're dealt a deck of cards, man, and you play 'em as they're coming.

Absolutely. I talked to Arnel about this and I was saying to him that he's so well accepted now, I think. This is a tough question, but do you think some of the stuff that was aimed at Arnel in the beginning was because of the way you swapped singers? Could there have been a better way of doing things?
(pause) You know (pause), things happen for a reason, Andrew.
And for some reason, things just did not fit like a glove…like we thought it might and we felt the need to find a guy and that was just my gut instinct - it was everybody's gut instinct.
But it's not taking away from anybody, it's just…that's the way it went, that's all. I suppose when you're looking back, there's always better ways of doing things but, at the time, we all like listened and had eyes wide open and we said, you know-we need to find somebody.




I'm going to keep calling back till we get this interview done!
(laughing) Oh, it's fine, I don't care.

Did you ever expect to find Arnel where you found him? Not as far as the YouTube thing but just, being from the Philippines?
I didn't know what I was going to find. I was looking into a lot of different singers on there and there was a few guys that I heard that absolutely had great voices; it was more of a soul thing. I was looking for that. I like soul but I was looking…
I wanted the rock mixed with the soul. We needed to find a high tenor: somebody that had a high tenor voice to properly do our old stuff as well as just for us to sound the way we do - the way we're supposed to sound. Arnel was really the only guy who I stumbled upon him and he is the only guy that I really…when I heard his voice I went, WOW—who is that?
Honestly. He just struck me - immediately. I went, that voice is something else.

Yeah. It is.
I think it was just fate. He's a really great guy and he's very humble and he's very talented and nobody deserves it as much as this guy. He was like homeless!

I know! It's unbelievable.
He's never forgotten that. He's definitely tremendously talented; he has a God given gift. Ok? No matter how long other people work on it and work on it and they get better at their craft and they sing better and they do this and that, some people are just gifted from the second they were born. To sing or to play whatever they're playing and they have a natural ability—he is one of them.

You worked with Kevin Shirley again for this record. But not the mixing aspect?
You know what? Kevin always does a great job; I found the problem with Kevin, you know, is he is always so busy-he's all over the place. And, it's hard to lock him down for enough time. (laughing) He's something. You know what I mean? That's what we found when we were done, it was like there was a whole lot of extra work that needed to be finished and that's why it's co-produced by myself and Jon.
Arnel pretty much re-sang the whole record; I re-did a lot of guitars and…added some keyboard parts and finished stuff up and tightened things up, moved string parts around. I mean, I did a lot of work with Jonathan on this record-- you know, after Kevin left.

Then, I was there for the whole mixing process with David Kalmusky and Jonathan would come in. But I sat there hour after hour in Nashville and made sure I got the best I could get out of it. I think that had we not done that I think the record would not sound the way it does. And I think, personally…I think it's one of the best sounding records we've made in a long time. I think the fidelityis full…a big bottom end that we don't have on a lot of our records; we compared all the mixes. We made like a little Pro Tools session and listened to ALL our records in a row-little bits and pieces of ALL our different records. They were big records and we then listened to the new record go by and it was just like… it sounded bombastic compared…it was all smashed in the middle. It's wide range fidelity and I don't care what anybody says-the proof is that if you listen to it side by each---you know, a lot of older records were actually mixed more for radio.
Because of all the compressing they used on radio and whatnot. This record was made for you to play over a system—like a good system…

…or even good speakers on a computer, you know what I mean?

And not for radio, so much. All the mixes that used to go out to radio in the old days are so horrendous sounding when you put them on a record player.
You know, they sounded great on the radio; it was nothing but high end sizzle and noisy! Just noisy!

I love the way…I love how Deen sounds on this record.
The drums…we worked long and hard on the drums, too.

Man, they're big!
The drums. The way they were recorded—there was issues with them. Big time.

We re-worked a LOT of that. Yeah. There were certain songs the mike wasn't on the snare! (laughing) I had to duplicate the snare and move it around! It was like…there were some issues.
You know, there was just a lot of work, Andrew, that's all I can tell you.
More work than I have ever done on any record, ever in my life.

It sounds like it.
Thank you. When we all finished with this and it was down to the sequencing. The sequencing was really…like if anybody wants to try to sequence this record in a different way…let them try! I listened to this record every frickin' which way you could listen to it. Moved every song, moved it around in front of it, in back of it. I mean…. I came with some of the stuff that more Journey-friendly - Someone and Anything Is Possible - I tried moving those up more towards the front and the other stuff sounded so out of character.

So, I worked on the sequencing for a couple of days straight and that was what I could get out of it—to where it flowed as an overall statement.

I feel it really does! I'm not sure I could rearrange it any better either.
Yeah. Well, you know all I can tell you is I know that I worked my butt off on this and the end result is absolutely as good as it can be for what it is.
And, if you don't care for it, then you don't care for it; if you love it, you do. It's like that, you know?

Absolutely. I think you've done a great job; there's no doubt about it and I'm glad you're on the road and things are going well.
Yeah. Things are good. I'm looking forward to getting back to our system. We had own PA system in the UK and in the United States. These shows that we're doing right now, we have whatever system you have that the promoter supplies you with and that's just the way the smaller shows go. So, it's more challenging for our mixer and such but, I mean, I think he's been doing a great job.

Yeah, ok.
I've heard some complaints here and there about sound but he's still fairly new with us and he's learning our stuff to great detail.

It's getting better and better by night by night. That's all I can tell ya.

Who is that? Is that your new permanent guy?
Yeah. He was out with Nickelback and he's done a lot of people. He's done Halen before, he's done Ozzy—Lionel Ritchie (laughs). All sizes—in fact, he's done Chicago. If you look at his roster, I mean it's just miles long. So, he's getting a grip on our stuff right now.

There was a different guy, Martin, actually that was mixing us, from South America. So, it's like we switched in midstream. With Martin, it was very more of a clinical mix; it didn't sound like the band to me. He's very good at what he does but it was more like a Steely Dan version of Journey.
Everything was separated and we were all compressed and tight. You know, Deen and I—sometimes sounded like we were in a closet!

And, so, it was just not working for Deen and I at all. Our new guy is a little bit on the other side so he's having to pull it back a little bit. He gets it rocky like a big monster but then he needs to be able to put it on top in the vocals. It's a fine line and he's...he just said to me the other night - he said, 'This band is not as easy as I thought it would be to mix.'
I said, No, it's not! But now, you're finding out. There's a lot going on that doesn't meet the eye when you listen to it. Jon's got a lot going on over there and there needs to be space made so that everything can be heard.
But, he's getting a grip on it! I really feel that he is.

Very cool. I've got to ask you 2 questions about the album that keep popping up. So, don't shoot the messenger but the one thing that everybody keeps saying is, This is Neal's record. Do you agree?
Well, you know what? It was…I've always wanted to do a conceptual record.
Whether or not we got a conceptual record - I don't know about that. I think musically it is a conceptual record, the way songs flow into other songs.
Conceptually, with lyrics, being about what they are on the record, I think that does flow too, but, obviously, it's not like a theme to it, lyrically, where…like a Tommy with the Who or anything like that.
So, you know, it was a vision that I had and but I think it's just as much Jon's record as it is mine! And the whole bands'.
I mean, Jon wrote the songs with me. And Arnel wrote on 2 songs and so I think it's all our record.

Yeah but it is a guitar record - there's no doubt that it is more of a guitar record.

And you know, some people maybe would prefer to hear the songs shorter but I felt no need to chop them shorter. I'm like, Why the fuck chop the stuff up when we're going to make a single anyway out of a song—it's going to get chopped up anyway for radio. For the actual record, why not have it stretch a bit? You know? If someone doesn't have the patience to listen to it then they just don't! You know but I felt no need to chop it up for radio purposes because I'm looking at it and I'm going, Really, how much radio is out there any more?

That's the exact same thing that Jack Blades said to me a couple of weeks ago when I was talking to him.
When Jack and I worked together… Jack and I were working on the other solo project that I worked on - you know I made 2 solo records after the Journey record and Jack helped me with the one with Marco and Deen… and so we were talking about it and I said, you know, what's the need to chop everything up? I don't get it.

That's what he said.
I'm like it's not like it's played on radio anymore and if they do want to play something, it's so easy to chop it up and not make it sound like it was like completely chopped off at the legs any longer: with Pro Tools there's a smooth way of doing it, where in the old days with tape, an edit was an EDIT…

(laughing) Literally!
…just cut it off. Cut it off a lot. I mean, we chopped down the City of Hope and we're chopping—we're ready to chop all of them.

Obviously, they need to be chopped but I just didn't feel the need.

Well, there isn't a need-you're absolutely right.
Kevin Shirley, before he left his last .02c was - I saw some stuff that he sent to Jonathan - he said, I feel there are too many guitar solos, it's too long, chop it up, and I was like, Well you could shorten stuff up, but then I said, Why??
It's a long play record; it's that type of record you know.

Oh, I'm lovin the extra guitar!
Well, like I said, it's always easy to chop later. If need be.

Here's the other big question that keeps coming up. You stated that you needed Arnel to return to the legacy sound, then there's the criticism that now this new album isn't the legacy sound! So what were you talking about?
Um…(laughs) Well, I don't know how to answer that. You know, like I said, we all need to feel like we're moving forward at one point and this is Arnel coming into his own. I mean, we can easily go back and go and write another Separate Ways - we can go back and write another Faithfully - we can go back and write another Stone in Love - you can go do that. But it's like we already have those songs.

Well, people will argue with me, well, you don't need those songs anymore - don't play them! I'd rather hear you play this! Everybody…it's a catch 22 constantly, Andrew. It's like, you know, no matter what you do, someone is saying, You should be doing this…and in the end, you need to do what you think you ought to do - not what everybody else thinks you ought to go.
We're in a Lamborghini here; we're switching gears and we're not stuck in neutral, you know what I mean?

…or first or second gear. Things are opening up! We're learning about who this new band is - with Arnel. We can…I don't think…Who knows what our next record will sound like.
You know…I have NO clue. But I can tell you that the fact that we made this record is a record that I wanted to make and everybody loved it when we were done with it and –I still LOVE it!

I still love it too.
Yeah. I think that it's a great record. It wasn't made specifically for radio - no it wasn't. Period.

Well, I'm glad…and that's exactly what Jack Blades said, “We didn't make it for radio; we just did what we wanted to!” (laughs)
Well, Jack was, before they started recording their record, we were talking about it! I'm like, man! ALL our songs are like 5, 6 minutes long! He goes, Really? And I go, YEAH! I go, Who cares??!
You know? I mean, if somebody, whoever, is listening and they don't like it because it's too long, they can always move forward - you know, go to the next track!! (laughs)

You could put out a 30 minute edited version for those that like concentration.
Like I said, Andrew, it's always easy to chop; you can't add. When you've added it from the git go, you can't add later. You can always take away.
And, all these songs can be put more in a radio friendly way to where they can be chopped down to 3½ minutes and still make sense.

Sounds good. I heard Arnel talking about Arrival, saying how much he liked the songs on that and it's still a GREAT album.
Yeah. We actually considered, at one point, Jonathan and I were talking about re-doing some of that stuff as we did with our Greatest Hits. And we felt very strongly about Arrival, too, the material –wise.

It's a great album.
Who knows, you know? Maybe we'll do something like that: maybe we'll dabble into that. We could have done more Greatest Hits 2 with this record…like the other Greatest Hits that we did with Revelation and do the same thing we did last time. We just chose not to, you know.
Well, we've definitely started something because now everybody likes the idea of re-doing a greatest hits but, once we got into it, and I realized it wasn't going to be that hard, I said, Why don't we do a full length record? You know, I want to do a new record…as well. So, a lot of people are doing that now.

Ok, so I like the idea that this is a stand-alone record it gets to stand on its own. But you're not ruling out doing some re-recordings of Arrival tracks and some other stuff at a later date?
No, I'm not opposed to that at all. I think we have great material on there, which I think…personally I think Arnel will KILL!
Not that Augeri didn't do a good job - he did! But, you know, they are 2 different guys.

Oh absolutely—very much so. You've managed to pick up singers with their own identity yet still have the Journey sound, haven't you. You've been pretty clever with that.
I think, honestly, Arnel is like…the guy. When he's not tired and he's not sick---he had a bit of some kind of chest thing going on where some of his high end went away for about 4 or 5 shows. He was really struggling—the smoke. The problem is, Andrew, is there is a lot of cigarette smoke over here.

Oh I know!
There's so much smoke in the air. I'm telling you what, when I played with Paul Rodgers, for a time, if ONE person lit up a fucking cigarette, he would leave the stage.

Really? (laughs)
He would. I mean, that was his thing-he hated cigarettes. I mean, like most singers do and it was like a couple of these places we played, I felt like I inhaled a carton of cigarettes while we were on stage. I don't even know how he sang with that crap…it was very, very difficult. It got in his lungs and it took him a bit south for a second, but he's on the road to recovery right now - he sounded really great last night.

It's a different thing in Europe, isn't it - the whole smoking thing is still widely accepted, isn't it?
I told my stage manager, Rob, today I said, I want fans-across the front of the stage - not ON the stage but like just build a little platform down there. And I want fans all the way across. And he's building them for all the cigarette smoke and he's blowing all back into the audience.

(laughing) If they're gonna blow smoke up, then it's going to go right back into the audience.

Great stuff. Now when are you coming to Australia - come on!
Next year! We're supposed to come next year.

Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. Is it going to happen?
I think so! I mean, honestly! I mean, it sounds pretty solid. That's why we're doing…we're not doing 2 years to go back into the same markets.

Well, I know that there's a lot of people down here that have waited a long time for you guys to come here.
Yeah! We need to put the right package together for it. I would love to play some dates with Barnes there. With Jimmy Barnes.
You know, seeing Jonathan wrote and produced that Freight Train Heart record for him and I played on it—we could have some fun.

That's a killer record. It still is.
I know! I love the record.

It's still his best album.
I haven't heard him years but, man…what a voice. I heard he's back in Cold Chisel…that's amazing.

Anything you'd like to say in concluding, Neal?
You know what? I think the record stands on its own merit and I'm sticking with that. I think that anybody that thinks that this record is done right now is COMPLETELY wrong.


There's a lot of records that I've seen that were out there like 8 months before something even hit and so we've got a lot of stuff and a lot of different ways to go about getting this record out. And everybody said, well, it's more of a European record…well, yeah! Europeans are digging it but it doesn't mean that it's not going to happen in the States too but we actually need to get there.
We need to GET there and make some things happen. It just doesn't happen like magic, man! We've got to be seen on TV; we gotta promote it! You know?
It'll happen.

I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will; it's a great record and it deserves it and thanks for making a record that really appeals to me! (laughs)
Thank you. I'm glad you appreciate it; there was a lot of heart and soul went into this thing: that's all I can tell you--a lot of effort.

Yeah. It shows. I think it shows. Whether you like it or not, you cannot deny that there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there.
Well, I'm glad you see it, my friend.

So, that's it for me, Neal; I'm off to bed.
Ok, Andrew. It's great talking to you. I haven't talked to you for long time.

It's been a while.
Best wishes to you and you're family.

Thank you, mate! Hopefully, I'll be able to bring them over to see a show next year.
Great! I'd love to see you.

Thanks for your time, Neal.
Thank you! Take care.


c. 2011 / Interview by Andrew McNeice


Thursday, June 12, 2014

Arnel Pineda: From Dusty Streets To Platinum Records

Journey's frontman came from extremely humble beginnings, but his dreams came true thanks to the Internet and a God given gift. Now he's everyman's hero. I talked to the softly spoken frontman during the band's European 2011 tour.


Hey there. You are Andrew from
Yes, that 's right, Arnel. How are you?
I'm good. How are you?

I'm good, mate! It's good to finally touch base with you!
I know, (laughs) but I feel that I have known you for quite a while now.

(laughs) Ok. You are ok to talk, then?
Yeah yeah. Don't mind my voice-I'm just tired because the hotel where we checked in—it's not so good. It's so noisy outside and then the room service keeps on knocking on the door and we forgot to put the 'Do Not Disturb' card on the doorknob.

Uh-oh. So, they are disturbing you all the time.
Yes, but it's ok. It's ok.

Have you got a show tonight or are you on a day off?
We are on a day off and then…tomorrow. Tomorrow, yes.

Where are you playing tomorrow?
We are already here in Hanover, Germany so this is where the show is going to be done. It's only like a 20 minute bus ride from the hotel.

Ok. And how are you finding life on the road? This is obviously your 2nd big tour with the band.
It's tough. Yeah, it's tough.

It is, isn't it? I don't think most people realize how hard it can be.
It's always tough on the road, yeah, yeah. There'll be…there are times that we travel sleepless, you know?
It's just like what happened when we came from Dublin, just a few days ago, to Berlin. Yeah, from the time I woke up at 11 in the morning, and then did the show in Dublin and then took the flight, went to the airport at 4 o'clock in the morning, and then 7 take off and then we got bumped off. The plane decided to land in Manchester for a while because there was a sick passenger…so we finally landed in Berlin like 2 in the afternoon. It was like I was awake for 25 hours.

So, it's things like that.

Yeah, it's hard enough without adding problems like that.
Yeah. Yeah. And then, our South American tour—we did 10 shows there, right? From country to country. So we have to spend at least 8-10 hours in the airport alone.

Yeah—the travel. It's so slow there: the immigration, the security, the queues, you know, it's long and painful. (Laughs)

But you guys are international rock stars—they just whisk you through, don't they? (Laughs)
Yeah…….No-it's …you know what happened? It's Journey's first time to tour around South America; they never did it since the days of Steve Perry…

You know how it was for them during his day, right? They only stayed in America and then the farthest they got was Japan.

They've never ever been in Australia, your country.

I know! I know! We keep trying but we haven't quite made it.
And in Europe, they only started braving Europe during the day of Steve Augeri.
And then, they were doing small shows back then.

Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. And then they did big shows when they fronted for Def Leppard, right?

Yeah. And then with Jeff Scott Soto.

Yeah. And….
And now they are trying to hit it big again.

I think they are doing a great job doing it but it's hard work for you guys, isn't it?
Yeah it is but you know what, it's all worth it so you know as long as the fans are happy, the hardcore ones and then the new ones then you know, we're happy.

We're happy.

The reports of the tour have been fantastic.
Do you like the album? What do you think of the new album?

I love the album. Did you see my review?
(pause and speaks with a smile) Yes, I read about it, yes. I think you liked it. (Laughs)

(Laughing) I LOVED the album!!
Thank you. Thank you, Andrew, it means a lot for… - for all the fans.

My pleasure! I'm mean, there are people that disagree with me and there's a lot that do.
Well…..what can you say. You cannot please everybody-I'm telling you. It's…

Well, it's Journey. It's especially complicated for you guys to please everybody.
(pause) Yeah, I know. They're still looking for Steve Perry, you know?

Yeah, well they've got a good enough singer at the moment so they should just, uh…(laughs)

It's safe to say all is well.
Yeah. Thank you.

Was there much difference from how you were personally approached the recording of this album than from Revelation?
Yeah I think we were much prepared. I mean, basically, with this album, we were much prepared than what happened to Revelation…. you know what? What happened to Revelation --they had enough materials but the thing is, I wasn't prepared to do it.
If you know what I mean?
I was like….I was ….they did not force me but I was so pressured to do it because it needs to be done in like a month and a half.

And, you know, I was like recording every other day. I was learning each song as days go by, if you know what I mean—learn a new song each day and then record it.

That's how it happened with Revelation. But, with this album Eclipse, I was prepared to do it.

I was given time- I had time, you know…So it was great. I had a great feeling for it this time.

Your vocals are just outstanding! The vocals are really superb.
Jonathan Cain prepared me very, very, very well.

How did he do that?
He was the one…of course…vocal teachers - I have the CDs, a lady - her name is Amber - so she prepared me for this one. Before I went to do the final vocals I did it in Nashville so I went to see this lady, Amber. So, she prepared me with Jonathan - we did all these things to open up my vocal chords. It went well!

It certainly worked! And something…your voice was crystal clear as far as the diction and the pronunciation of the words.
Yeah. Jonathan guided me well.

What advice did he give you?
Oh…he was just there. He was filling in every words that I was missing, every diction that I'm missing. And he was like, 'what a minute Arnel'…he was there. Like a father. You know? It was fun…it was good.
He was a real mentor for me and so was Neal. So he was there giving me all the confidence and the moral boost, you know.

Great. Well then there was no doubt that you could DO it - they were just helping you nail it.
Yeah! Yeah.

I talked to Kevin Shirley a little bit ago and he was saying that, at one stage you said 'If I'm not doing a good enough job, I'll stand down.'
Yeah Yeah. I told him that if I… because we were talking, you know, like friends, and you know we became relaxed with each other's company.
So I told him what's in my heart, you know. If the big boys think I am not up for the job, I'm willing to step out any time, you know, because for the sole reason that I so respect the legacy they have built and that Steve Perry has left behind; I don't want to ruin it.

I don't want to mess it.

It's…it's…it's not just like some music that you hear everyday. You know? It's a special music.

Yes indeed.
I grow up listening to those music, you know? To this music - Journey music.
So I don't think if I'm not offered the job, then I would still stay? I think that's something I wouldn't do. I have so much respect for the boys, you know.

Well that's a very humble attitude approach to take.
Yeah… It's not just about money; this is about delivering the best… the best in me through their trust.

Well take it from me you're doing the Journey name very proud.
Thank you. Thank you, Andrew, really.

Absolutely. I hope to tell you that in person soon enough. (Laughs)
Well, we will MEET! I think we are doing some dates in Australia next year.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about.
A couple.

I'm talking to management to try and help them so uh…
It's on the talks now I think; it's rolling now.

Great. Great. Great!
It's a matter…it's just a matter of financial, you know.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's not cheap to get here.
I know. But, to get there I think we need to cover some more area, I think.
If we go there, we need to go to Singapore , we need to go to Hong Kong, get a few things again in Japan, Guam. So…we would be able to afford to go Australia.

Absolutely. Sounds great. Everybody's heard the story of how Neal contacted you and how you came about…
Yup. Yup.

... but just to take you back there a little bit from a different angle, what were your long term plans at that time…singing so often, every night as you were in Manilla?
You know, before Neal called me, me and my wife were about to head out and back to Hong Kong.

Yeah…We were planning to back there so I was just trying to help her fix her papers so we could both go together to Hong Kong.

And what were you going to do in Hong Kong?
Uh… you know...just stay there and live there because I have a permanent ID there. It's considered like…I'm a permanent resident there.

But I was singing every night.

But you didn't have any major plans for another band or whatever?
That was the major band. (Laughs)

Sure! Just moving…
Just bring my family there and live there and my wife, Cherry, could work there too, you know,9-5 thing and me doing the 8-2 in the morning gig, you know.
Every night.

That's a hard slot. How did you find that?
Well, it's easy because I've been doing it anyway since 1991 there in Hong Kong so it's not hard for me to find a gig there.

Yeah, ok. And then you've got this phone call and now your life…
I gave away my number to him…because I was testing if he was to call or if he would email me or something - email me back. And he decided to call me up and after 10 minutes of sending those emails, you know. He definitely received those emails and he had already called me.

So, that was it! It was a start.

Oh absolutely. (Laughing)
And, uh, the rest is history.

Was there any method…when you were singing, performing and doing all these songs and putting all these clips up on YouTube, was there any greater reason for doing that, other than just showcasing what you were doing?
I choose the latter part of what you said. Yeah. Just for showcasing it.
You know what, Andrew, before I met these boys in Journey, I was singing by anything.
But totally, honestly I sing high songs but as well as I sing low songs because I cannot do what I am doing now with Journey before. It's so hard because I was singing, um…by instinct.

If I feel like singing high, I will sing high. If I don't feel like singing high, then I will go low.

Yeah. But now you can't really to do that! (Laughing)
You must have checked my profile; I was singing like alternative songs as well as really classic rock songs, right?

Oh yeah, absolutely. But you never expected one of those bands you were covering to give you a call, right? (Laughs)
Yeah. Yes, it was a sweet surprise but, then again, a shocking moment for me.
Never in my wildest dream that I would ever, ever get a kind of an opportunity like this-it was… really. Until now-it's so weird…every time I'm up there.

A dream come true.
You know, Andrew, they have broken the uh…broken the uh…how do you say that…each, any and every kind of boundaries there is to become in American rock and roll band. (Laughing)

To sing, you know. They have broken it. I'm not supposed to be there but then it's…it's…its exciting—it's happening. You know? (Laughing)

Absolutely. And I don't like… I don't want to talk money with you or anything but, for someone in your position, to get a gig like this, it's obviously—it changes your life, doesn't it.
Yes, a lot. Yes.

You can be secure in being able to take care of your family-that must mean a lot.
Yeah-in a drastic way. Yes, yes. You are true, Andrew but then there's always a price to pay, too.

Oh yeah, I can understand that now you're separated from your family being on the road, right?
Yeah, yeah. But I'm with my family now.

They're with you?
Yeah. The only time that I wasn't with my family was the first tour—in 2008.

Oh great! So, your wife travels with you?

Well that must be a huge moral sort of support.
Yeah, yeah. It made a lot of difference in at least…the pressure is not that bad--the loneliness--the longingness--you know, the emptiness.
Even though I make people happy by singing with Journey—it may sound so self-fulfilling but when you are back in your room, it's just an empty room, you know?

Yeah, I understand that completely and from the many interviews that I have done over the years, that's the point in time where you can get yourself into trouble, right?
Mmmmm…yeah. It's true. That's why I see the other singers, the other rock stars right? Drugs, women and alcohol—they do that because…because...they cannot get in touch with their fans or whoever they want to talk with because that moment will get them into trouble, they keep themselves alone in the room and doing all sorts of things.

Not good for a family man!
Yes, yes.

Off the subject of music a little bit, I saw a fairly lengthy documentary on your homeland and in particular the city of Manilla.

I'm not sure that people really understand how hard the living conditions are for a good portion of the population there.
Oh wow. You haven't been to Manilla, right?

No, not personally. I've been to Indonesia, Denpasar and stuff but not Manilla.
OH! You have to be there to see for yourself but there's a lot of depressed…uh, depressing areas there. Depressed areas—a lot.

Yeah. This documentary was quite stunning.
There are at least …at least 50 to 100,000 kids living on top of the mountains of garbage.

Oh yeah I saw that on this documentary—I couldn't believe it!
They are physically and literally living on top of all that; that's where they get their livelihood –you know, collecting plastic, papers. They dig through, you know, smelly, smelly things, you know.

Unimaginable smell, you know. That's why I want to do work.

It's horrible. You're actually trying to help some people there. You've got a foundation.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

What a wonderful thing to do.
Yeah, because I was there once.

I was in that same situation once. So, I feel like…to be able to give back, I have to do something about it by putting up my own foundation.

And, how does that operate? How do you get…how does the help reach these kids?
Hmmmm…continuous support of the dollars and I've been getting a lot of that lately. And, during free times, I work onto reach on these big companies to be able to get big grants so I could put up a small school center near there. So hopefully I will get one in the future-in the near future. I'm not going to stop working until I get one.

That's awesome.
You know, just to be able to help these kids because they are…they were born poor and their parents were born poor. It's just like they are heirlooms to this poverty and I think they do not deserve it. You know? I mean they deserve an equal opportunity just like the other privileged ones.

Absolutely. They're born into it—they have no choice, do they?
So…I will help them have hope, you know…feel the hope. I will make them feel that they have hope - they have…they can make a difference through education and they can still dream! They're not…and their poverty is not permanent…that they can move on.

Yeah. Just how poor were you, Arnel? What situation were you in right back at the beginning?
I physically and literally ended up really, really hungry and homeless for quite a while. I was homeless for a year, yeah.

For almost a year, I was homeless and asking food, you know, from friends.

Yeah. And did somebody give you a break? How did you break out of that?
Through a friend. Uh…he introduced me to his friends-they were a band. They were into bands and playing gigs and so I was introduced at the age of 15. It was 1983.

Oh wow.
It was a slow start but it sure got me out of my poverty period.

Yeah. It's fantastic. Music was your savior.
Yeah, my voice. (Laughs)

When did you start singing Arnel?
I started singing when I was only 5 years old. It was my parents who started enjoying my early singing years. (Laughs)
They would make me sing every time they are in the mood to hear me sing and they would ask me if I could spare a couple of songs for them. (Laughs)

(Laughing) Fantastic.
It was fun!

And now, at this point, you are actually bringing your fans to a band that has been around 35 years.
I know. I know.

How strange is that-to consider that?
Too strange. I cannot even…I don't know where to begin to describe it…I don't even know.

It's just hard to explain. It's just…until now, I'm telling you, it's like, my God, I'm doing this, you know? How cool is that? How strange is that?

(laughing) Yes.
This is like…these guys… I'm only watching them from videos. Music videos, DVDs… And now I'm in! Like, you know, meeting these guys Foreigner, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Kansas, Reo Speedwagon…it's…Sammy Hagar I've met. Joe Satriani—I met them, you know.

How have those guys been to you? What have those guys said to you?
They've been great, you know, they've been assisting me all the way; they've been taking care of me-they've been helpful! They were mentors-they're mentors. By the way, if you happen to talk to John Farnham…

(laughing) Oh yeah!
Or AC/DC? They are one of my heroes.

Oh, he's amazing! He's such an amazing guy.
John Farnham…what a voice.

Oh. Amazing. He's got one of the best voices in the business.
I know. My God. I wish I have half of his sound.

I think you have more than half, mate. (Laughs)

I really enjoyed your covers of the Survivor tunes, too.
Oh yeah. Survivor. I haven't met them but I watched them once in the Philippines when they did a show.

I would love to meet them, too. And thank you.

Yeah, Jim Peterik is a very old friend of mine.
Really!! Wow……!!!

Yes, absolutely. When you're in Chicago, I must try and get him to come along and see you.
Please tell them that I want get autograph.

I will! I will.
The singer-the one that sang Ever Since The World Began…What a voice. What –a – voice!

Yeah. Amazing.
Arnel, what was it like getting on stage in your home town of Manilla?

(Deep breath) You know what? That was very overwhelming.

I bet. I bet. I can't imagine.
Overwhelming. Yeah, the emotions were so mixed and, my god, it's just …I don't know! I'm so proud but at the same time I'm so scared.

You know, how are my fellow man going to touch me? How are they going to grade me? But, you know, it went out well!

It did! It absolutely went off well. I heard amazing stories. was a sigh of relief, after the end of the show.

Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's like, God! You know…that's all I said.

And the music of Journey is so emotional, how do you hold it together on stage when you're feeling emotional yourself?
Well…you know, Andrew……I should really put all the words in my heart when I sing it. And that's what I did! That's what I did. I know every single word of…the way they wrote it…that's how I sang it.
There's no other way to sing it but that way because if you sing it the other way, I don't think it's gonna work.

I don't think the people will be able to comprehend or will be able to relate the way they should relate to the songs so I ...that's how I did it.
They way it should be sound…and then I was thinking of Steve Perry.…was Perry gonna sing this, you know, so that's how I did it.

Like I've said, you're doing the music proud; I really believe that.
Well you know, that's why the hardcore fans should stop really saying things because I'm doing this not to overdo, or not...not…to outdo Steve Perry. I'm so proud of doing this because I know I am carrying his legacy on my shoulder.

Yeah, I have so much respect for the guy because he's just …he's just one of my heroes.

Me too!
…and he will always be one of my hero. He's great.
No, really, I mean I would really, my God, it would make my world…it would make my whole life even better just to be able to shake his hand and all, you know.

Absolutely. Look, I won't keep you too long because I know you're busy and tired and need to rest, Arnel.

What are your favorite songs off the new album?
My favorite songs? Oh…

All of them? (Laughs)
Ummm… let me think…I like Resonate—I like Tantra—I like Anything is Possible—I like Chain of Love—
City of Hope has a hold on the audience. I think most of it, I like! Someone…you know.

I love your vocal in Anything is Possible.
I really enjoyed doing... singing all of those-really. Everything.
Except Venus, of course. It's just all guitars!

Very good! Very good.
Neal's gonna kill me! Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. One song that's got everybody talking is Tantra.
You know…what do you think of the song, Andrew?

I think it's one of my favorites on the album—I absolutely love it.
Mmmm. Yeah.
It's very spiritual, right?

I love the intro and then when the band comes in and, towards the end, your vocals are just unbelievable!!
(deep breath) Yeeaaahhhhh, well… I told you! They taught me well.
They really got it. They really mentored me well, so…my hat's off to the guys.

Yeah, well, you're too humble. You should take more credit because that's an amazing song and if not for an amazing vocal, it wouldn't have worked.
I follow well. (Laughing) That's all I can say, yeah.

How did it go singing it live? Because you did it in England, didn't you?
Yeah, I did! Oh!!! You know what? After…sometimes I struggle because…because of…too much…because of…it's a long set…

Yes! It is!
… an hour and a half…and, you know, and then you sing to all these…uh…30,000! A bunch of new songs…you know what? I soooo love singing it on stage: letting the new fans hear about it. It's just blessing, you know.

Fantastic. And for the future you will stay with Journey as long as they will have you?
Yeah!! As long they want me, I'm gonna be there. But then, as long as I can do it…I want to be as honest as possible to myself, you know? If I can do it…I don't want to force myself, you know?

Because, not just for the money, you know.

Like if you burned out.
Because I care about the fans, too. I don't want them coming to the show and then leaving disappointed.

No. It's not gonna happen. So, as long as I can do it, effortless, then I will do it.

But the time comes that the voice is faded then I think it's time to throw the towel in already.

Yeah. Well I think you've got a lot of years left in you; I think you're a…you're very young at heart.
Yeah. Well, I take care of myself a lot and I'm so ready, already, taking care of it. Well, we're only human, you know. Age. Age-we cannot beat it. It's always going to haunt us.

Yeah exactly. Yeah, I've had a rough couple of years with my health so (laughing) I know about it. (Laughing)
(laughing) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It catches up with you!
Well, just stay with regiment, my friend.

Yes. I need a better regiment. I'm lazy. (Laughing)
(Laughing) Well if you're lazy, maybe you could consider at least changing your eating habit.

I need to. Absolutely.
Take some brisk walking –maybe every other day.

Yeah exactly. Look, last question, Arnel. I think the answer is yes.

I think the answer is yes - I have to say that up front but do you feel accepted by the Journey fans? Do you feel…some people were a little bit hard on you at the start, you know, without knowing what was to come. But, do you feel accepted now?
You know what, to tell you honestly, it matters but, at the same time, it doesn't matter now who are accepting me or who are not. But, then again, I'm grateful to those…to the people who are accepting me.
And then, I also thank the people who are not accepting because they give me more drive and inspiration because of what they say.

It gives me more…it gives me more courage. Like…Ok. I'm gonna try harder! I'm just gonna try harder.

That's just a wonderful attitude.
Yeah. And, then if the time comes that there's nothing there for me then that's about it. At least I tried my best. And then, to my knowledge, I made a lot of people happy.

You have.
That's all that matters, you know? And then, if the other people are not happy about it, I mean, it's not going to make me lose sleep.

Yes. You shouldn't.
Yes. I respect how they feel. I respect…uh…their music preference…I respect their singer preference. You know? What can I do?

Yeah. Well, I think you've won a lot of people over and I think you've really established yourself.
Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Well, they helped me a lot, you know, the fans? And then, Journey—the boys—they have helped me a lot. The crew…everybody! And my family! My family…they were…it was a dramatic help; it was a humongous help so…they were!! They loved me! I can only love them back.

Fantastic. Look, it's been a pleasure talking to you, Arnel.
It's an honor, Andrew. I think I'm going to need to meet you in person now. (Laughing)

I absolutely look forward to it!
See the face behind the voice.

Absolutely. One day, for sure. Hopefully, hopefully on OUR shores here for an Australian tour.
Yeah! If it will happen; I think it might happen early January. Or late January.

Well, we'll be there - you count on it.
I'm looking forward to it, Andrew. I'll see you.

Take care, take care of yourself on the road, Arnel.
Ok. Ok. You too, huh? Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you for your time.
Yeah. Thank you, thank you.


c. 2011 / Interview by Andrew McNeice / Transcribed by Debbie - August 2011.



Herbie Herbert: One Man's Journey


Herbie Herbert is one of the music industries most colorful characters. For a period of time he was the #1 manager in the business, taking Journey – a band he put together with Neal Schon – to become a multi-Platinum selling stadium act.
And in taking the band to the stadiums, he also helped pioneer the way we watch bands in such settings. The video screens and high-tech productions that dominate tours today were developed by Herbie and the company he and Neal remain partners in – Nocturne – who are today behind tours by U2, Madonna, Metallica, Def Leppard and of course, Journey.
Herbie also broke Swedish hard rock act Europe in America, not to mention taking Mr. Big, Roxette and Steve Miller Band to more Platinum sales and sold out worldwide tours.
He is vocal in his opinions and calls it like he sees it, which doesn't always please some folks on the receiving end.
But few people have been in the position Herbie was in and when the chance to interview an industry legend presents itself you don't turn that down.
I have long followed the business side of the music industry, so Herbie's insights were something I was looking forward to hearing and he doesn't disappoint.
I do think this is a different interview than the infamous 2001 interview which was viewed by some as caustic in nature. And I'm pleased about that – but Herbie still has a number of things to say about the band he spent 20 years of his life guiding, some of which you may agree with, some of which you may not agree with.
There are some points within this interview that I clearly do not agree with, but I respect Herbie's opinion and the experience he has in this business to make those comments.
As was previously the case, Steve Perry remains in his sights as the band's number one problem. Why is this so? Well…one interesting comment from Herbie says a lot. In talking about the band, Herbie says: “I would just like to make my living and do what I think I can get done here. So from my point of view that got stopped and mucked up quite a bit. There was no reason for them not to continue in '84, '85, '86. they could have been a polished Grateful Dead and that was my model as a deadhead.”
I feel that Herbie saw his long held vision for the band altered by Perry and therein lies the root of the problem. Read the interview and make your own conclusions about the personalities that make up this story.
Journey has a long and complex history, with a number of different eras and different fans of those eras. It makes for an interesting world.
At the end of the day, I would like to hope that this interview could be used not as a springboard for new arguments, issues and debates, but rather as a piece that closes the chapter on the past – a glorious musical past that has left us with so many lifelong memories.

Without Neal Schon and Herbie Herbert there would be no band.
Without Steve Perry there would not have been that electric chemistry that helped deliver a catalogue of songs few artists could compete with, sung by a golden voice envied by all.
Without Steve Augeri the band may not have recaptured the imagination of so many fans, allowing the band to continue into a new era.
Without the fans…there would be no point.

Thanks for reading - Andrew.


Good evening Herbie. Thank you for granting an interview. I know you don't do too many.
No, I don't.

I'm not sure, but has Kevin Chalfant told you anything about the website or myself?
Not really but I believe I've heard about it because if I'm not mistaken you guys are the ones that somehow in Sweden determined that Steve Augeri was singing to a hard drive.

Ah….well, I didn't have anything to do with that myself, but you are correct in that those claims appeared on my website's message board – posted by the sound guy from Sweden. Some chatter was already taking place and…heated debate continued as it always does on that board. The Sweden thing kind of took on a new life from that point onwards.
Yeah it did and I thought that was a healthy thing, that that came to light. Because, you know I think they dodged a real bullet there. They could have easily been reduced to Milli Vanilli quickly. What's unfortunate about that is Neal Schon's the real deal.

To generalize a little here – many big acts use samples and even shadow musicians behind the scenes to enhance the sound they are delivering. Why that need for perfection?
Well, because the money at stake on any given night is humongous and unlike motion pictures or television you can't say freeze or let's re-tape that or can we do that over or can we shoot tomorrow or whatever. Rock 'n roll is, always has been the most intense, high pressure, and if you're in that pressure cooker and you do get involved with drugs at all, then you're very quickly weakened. And you can't cut it or if you're as clean as can be there's a high level exposure. Every city you get to you gotta go to radio and retail and go to in-store appearances. You gotta have backstage meet and greets with all the record labels and the branch in that town and the various radio station personnel.
All the radio stations, you need their support in each market so you're pressing the flesh and kissing babies and catching the flu.
I remember with Steve Perry we had a four night sellout at the Reunion Arena in Dallas and he really was in rough, rough, rough shape and it was the one time when I had to sit down and go 'Steve', it's horrendous, this is why the pressure is what it is, but we would put in suspense the settlement on this, what at the time was an obscenely big gross in rock 'n roll and until we returned and played the postponed fourth date we couldn't settle because all the deals were really tightly negotiated predicated on four days.
They were extraordinary low deals but they were justified by the band playing four nights sold out in the round and all the ancillary income from parking and all would be frozen if he couldn't perform. And so, somehow he got through that performance and in those days, when that happened, the crutches hadn't been developed.
They hadn't come up with the Akai Samplers and the various technologies that would allow for it. But there was a famous lawsuit that happened in Detroit where it was discovered that a band were playing to just a big reel to reel tape machine out in the soundboard and there was a substantial award - a big settlement against them, a big judgment.

Against what band?
Against Electric Light Orchestra and Don Arden and Jet Records and whoever for basically doing a fake thing, a Milli Vanilli kind of thing.
Journey really, I can remember sitting down one day and putting headphones on and watching a video of the last concert with Gregg Rolie back in 1980 in Tokyo at the Sun Plaza. And being just astonished at how good these guys could sing. You know, Jon Cain was never a Gregg Rolie as a voice but he's been trying and working at it for frickin' years now. He tries to cover those Gregg Rolie songs and he marginally pulls it off and Deen Castronovo is such a frickin' franchise talent. Great singer, great drummer, tremendous talent and so they really could pull off serious vocals. They didn't need the crutches. With Augeri they did. They needed the crutches, they needed the help. He had trouble. It was rough. I never understood why they went with him. They could have gone with Kevin Chalfant.

You have been a champion of Kevin's over the years haven't you?
I really have. Of course he was in the Storm with Gregg Rolie and Ross Valory. And when, you know I had absolutely nothing to do with it, I was on a sailboat going between the Hawaiian Islands and then doing a saltwater fast and was gone for about two and a half months. The day after I got back they were roasting me for the benefit of Thunder Road [October 1993] and they'd put all these bands together that wanted to perform at this benefit and it was sold out and I didn't pick the bands or book it. Journey performed that night and I was stunned. And they performed with Kevin Chalfant. This is researchable because in Rolling Stone, Random Notes, that must have been '93, it said, and this was one of the most cutting quotes I've ever read where it said “Not even Steve Perry's mother would have missed him in the band.” Now that is deep. (laughs) I mean, if you're a writer and you think and say wow that guy really thought about that line.
I mean, he wanted to fuckin' play out a zinger there, ya know? (laughs) So yeah, and so Kevin was pretty flawless at all times and really could sing in that really high range. But, he did an album of Journey covers.

Yeah, that was last year – very good CD too.
Yeah last year and the thing is, I think the reason that he didn't get put in the band then is because, you know we're all, how old was Perry when he sang most of these songs, 30, 31, 32, 33, when you're in your 40s or 50's, forget about it. There's no chance, so Kevin was knocked down a half step. I'm not gonna go to a piano or guitar and try to figure that out. And he really intimated to me that this was done in the original key. Yeah, but barely, you know if you're a half step down from a major to a minor or whatever, you know, it's a significant change in the tonality and everything else. And for whatever reason, the band, Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. Despite the logic, the unavoidable logic, that if Steve Perry was still in the band, and I know that there's a giant public out there that would love nothing more, they're clueless to the fact that the guy can't sing anymore.

A number of people have suggested such a thing…
No, I said it in the one interview I did other than this one. No, what the hell, I said listen, here's what I want you to do. Go out there. There were so many people out there in Golden Gate Park for Bill Graham's wake. The Grateful Dead, Aaron Neville and all these artists performed and Journey performed that day. Journey performed, you take these songs and you get a tape of that and they took them down two whole steps. I mean, this is from E to A. They passed G to A, you know what I mean?
Knocking 'em down hard and Steve Perry's voice was all broken up. So, you know, forget about it. It was just so revealing. That was in '91 at which point that day I hadn't seen him since 1986 Raised on Radio and that was five years. And what an ugly encounter that was with Steve Perry that day.
That was the last time I ever saw him, Bill Graham's wake, and if I never saw him again it would be too soon.

You've certainly been outspoken about Steve Perry. Your 2001 interview, which was dubbed Castles Burning - [] - your last really big interview I think, become kind of infamous.
Oh really and who did I do that with?

It was with a guy named Matthew Carty.
Oh yeah, Matthew Carty, that was the guy. The guy from Phoenix or whatever, that was, you know the funny thing about that one was, at the end he said 'Now I have to ask you, why did you give me this interview.' I said, 'You're the only one who ever asked.' And I'll tell you what. This would be the astonishing part. What I think is significant about that is how the artists feel that they're so the center of the universe. That surely the interest in what is the every nuance of their life is so, you know, as if it were important or whatever. Nobody ever tried to find me. Nobody was ever interested enough to ask me any questions let alone the questions that kid asked. That kid asked some good questions because obviously people were, well, I think it stirred up a lot of controversy.

It sure did…
What it really proved more than anything is the power of something that I was very responsible for. And make no mistake, I have the utmost respect for the talent of these individuals. I selected them man by man. I negotiated and put them into my band.
You know what I mean? And it's because they were extraordinarily gifted but when you have that sort of creative genius it doesn't mean that on the other side of your brain, left brain function where it's acquired knowledge about how to act, how to be, you know, that part that doesn't have narcissistic personality disorder, you know, that's the hard part. Very little exposure, you know? It becomes difficult after a while. Who's human to human, you know? That's the problem. In the long run though I have ultimate gratitude, ultimate gratitude and I'll go to my grave as Neal Schon's greatest champion and fan. I think he is just extraordinarily gifted.

He certainly is. One of the questions I was going to ask you and I'll throw this at you now – but I don't think Neal gets his share of love from the critical press.
I've never understood it. I've kinda thought maybe because of the origins of where Neal and I came from, from when he was 15 joining Santana and I was Carlos' personal guy and just had a great love affair commence right then with Neal. And I've kinda always said, you know, Carlos closed the door behind him. On the guitar legends thing you know, Page, Plant, Hendrix, Carlos Santana, those people could be mentioned in the same breath and for you to distinguish yourself and rise above the din of all the other guitarists you're really going to have to swing a big bat. And you're gonna find, you're gonna look up and you're gonna go wow, I guess Eric Clapton wasn't just a lead guitar player. I mean at the end of the day he became a great personality singer and great song selection has a depth of catalog and after while you go wow.
Of course Neal was always a major Clapton fan so he didn't need to be told anything like that but he didn't really connect the dots. And so I wanted him to be a songwriter and a singer and in the songwriter since he's a melody savant, you know, just something else, you know, but it's been tough and people have been very reluctant to give him his due although I think he's been incredibly influential and they just don't talk about it. And whatever, it's never been de rigueur to mention Neal Schon. I think he scares the hell out of a lot of people. Even technical people that are great players like a Steve Vai or a Joe Satriani or a Eric Johnson or you know? It's just across the board because he's just a, he has some sort of sensitivity and touch and feel and voice. Did you hear the album he did for Higher Octave called Voice?

Oh absolutely.
I mean now, who can do that?

I've got every one of his solo records. I think he's astounding.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (laughter) It really is true you know. He's just something else.

I've got a lot of questions for you Herbie and…
I'm sorry to just ramble on. Go on and ask your questions.

I didn't want to cover a lot of territory that Matthew's interview already did because, credit to him for getting that great interview online, but there's a lot since that point in time that's happened that I'd like to ask you about.
OK. I've been very, very retired and very, very uninvolved.

I think you keep your ear to the ground though right?
A little bit, yeah. I mean Neal will call me and tell me all the things he's doing and of course and way back in the very beginning when he first found this singer on YouTube he called me and had me listen to it.

Oh great, Ok, look I'll get to that in a second Herbie.
I wanted to ask you, just for the people, you know the younger readers of my site that don't know the Herbie Herbert legacy - you started off in San Francisco with Bill Graham who obviously was a legendary promoter.
How did you hook up with Bill?

We met at the Acid Trips Festival, I think in January or early February of '66 and just had various encounters when he had the original Filmore Auditorium and then at the Filmore West and we just became very good friends. He was like a second father to me and a mentor and he is the one who, when I asked him what I should do, having been offered a job by Johnny Winter and Steve Paul from Peter, Paul and Mary who had a big hit at the time - Jet Airplane - and their manager was Albert Grossman.
Bill knew both of those gentlemen and what should I do, and both offers started at $150 a week and in 1969 that was a lot of money, believe it or not. And he said, 'I think you should go to work for Santana'. And I said, 'Santana, why, they don't even have an album out?' And he said, 'well they're gonna have an album out' and he had just returned from Woodstock, which I didn't go to, and he said the world heard Santana at Woodstock, when their album comes out it's gonna explode, and he was of course totally right.
So I said 'What can they pay me?' And he said 'maybe I can get you $75 a week'. So I said, 'you're telling me to not even consider those other jobs for half the money with Santana?'
And of course, Bill goes “You asked, I told you, you owe me nothing.” (laughter)
So I took the job with Santana and loved it, just loved it. And I loved that man, then along came this little punk kid guitar player, Neal Schon, and there's a wild story about how that evolved and somehow Gregg Rolie said to the owner of a studio, yeah I'll help you produce some local club band and Neal was in that local club band. So it was fantastic. Gregg Rolie was always a joy to work with.

I've only had a few dealings with Gregg but he has always been very genuine.
Uh huh, and his band's great. He's doing fantastic. If you go and see his band play right now he lets you know that he was a very big part of both Santana and Journey. A very big component, and really the leader, you know. Musically, the band leader and it was devastating when he left Journey. I was fuckin' crushed.

And you covered that in the Carty interview. He'd just had enough at the time. Yeah, it was just, you know, bad things were brewing. He knew it and he didn't want to live through it. I think he felt that Perry was gunning for me from early on and I don't know why.

Yeah, so you started off with Sanata and moved through the ranks and then put Journey together and you were doing pretty well initially. Where did the desire to turn Journey into a bigger act come from?
After the first three albums, and by the third album the inmates were allowed to run the asylum. Meaning that Journey got to produce their own third album, Next. You know, there was a real cult following. They were like a jazz/fusion/rock kind of thing. We played with Weather Report, Majahvishnu Orchestra, Santana, and Robin Trower and bands like that. And it just went over perfect and I loved that original band and many people did. I think the first album in real time sold like 150,000 and the second album sold 250,000 and then the third album did 100,000 or maybe 150,000. So with that, and the thing that people can't quite keep in perspective, is where Journey was in that. All the other bands in their supposed genre had really come and gone. Boston, Foreigner, Styx, REO all those bands had their hits way before Journey had theirs. In fact some of those hits were from things borrowed from Journey. I think if you'll listen to I'm Gonna Leave on the Look Into the Future record, track 5 side 1, it's Carry On Wayward Son, by Kansas. They just lifted it. And if you listen on the third, Next, album to Nickel Dime, that's Tom Sawyer by Rush and they didn't modify it very much.

And that, I think, is the biggest song of their career. That's a pretty big career and so they were kinda left in the station when the train left. They were standing on the platform watching the tail lights of the caboose go wailing away in the distance. Then you look up and it's 1977 and they've toured all year, all through Europe with Santana and another big tour with ELO both in '76 and '77 and it just wasn't happening. And you look at the charts and its Donna Summer, Saturday Night Fever, Grease, Disco Inferno by The Trammps. I mean it was as clear as ringing a bell that era was gone and basically Columbia Records said that. It's over.
So I was just in a complete scramble and they were gonna drop the act. So there was a scramble to do something to modify what we were doing. So I said we'll change it, we'll go commercial, I'll put in a lead singer and this guy that was in charge of artist development, Arma Andon had a singer that he liked that was managed by Barry Fey in Denver and that guy was Robert Fleishman. So we tried him and did a whole tour with him, with Emerson Lake and Palmer and even played stadium dates. And he was just very difficult to manage. And somewhere along the line I finally got a Steve Perry tape. I'd met Steve Perry numerous times, had thought about him numerous times. There were just certain moments. I mean when I was going to make the deal for Robert Fleishman in the middle of the Golden Gate Bridge with John Villanueva we both looked at each other and I goes, 'Steve Perry. I still have never heard that fuck, but I have a feeling about him'. Then when I finally did hear him, I listened to him for about 60 seconds on tape and I tried to chase him down, but he's already left the music business. I talked to his mom and he was working in a turkey farm in Visalia pounding nails with his stepfather Marv on the weekends trying to pay back his debts.
He'd borrowed all this money from them while he lived in LA and put his bands together and put his demos together and did showcase after showcase to managers, to labels, to agencies, and nobody ever heard it. Nobody ever wanted it.

I don't get that at all.
I was pretty astonished by it. I got it in seconds. I got it, and so I wanted, and you know what? At that moment, when I heard it, I was thinking that and well it was really truth, Robert was pretty well in the band and Neal loved Robert Fleishman. They really liked him. He was just a poodle in heat to deal with as a manager. He was like (using whiny voice) “Oh everybody, would you clear the dressing room? That person smoking over there….” That kind of, you know, oh man please. If this is before he's got his first paycheck what's gonna happen?
So there was that side of it and so at that moment I just liked this band. I wanted to sign this band. It was called Alien Project. And I said I'll do this. I'm gonna make this happen. And from my first phone call, that very weekend, the bass player in that band died in a car accident which really left Steve Perry very fermished [messed up].
When I tried to talk him into coming up and spending a week with me at my house he couldn't afford to. I talked to his employer, got an ok, told him I'd pay him the money he was gonna lose, pay his expenses, he can sleep on my couch. He did all that and I started workin' on him and said ok let's forget the Alien Project. Let's talk about Journey. And it was not an easy negotiation by any stretch. He was afraid of Aynsley Dunbar not having a groove, being too white a British drummer with very minimal exposure to soul or R&B and not strong on the backbeat. I loved Aynsley, I still love Aynsley, great guy, intellect. You know, talent with an intellect, that's why I worked with Steve Miller for so many years. I like the resourceful type people, the Jeff Lynne's of the world. But you know at a certain point with Perry, Aynsley only lasted one record really, the Infinity album. Then we terminated him and brought in Steve Smith.

And that was the start of the hits era for the band…
Yes, in truth yes, their first top ten hit was Who's Crying Now from Escape. Although people want to swear up and down that Lights and Feelin' That Way and Wheel in the Sky and all these familiar songs, you know, the Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin', Anyway You Want It, and songs that got so Goddamned much airplay you got pounded by them but they really were never hits. And a lot of that airplay was subliminal. And a lot of it was not really subliminal it's called foreground music.
That was little discovery about these companies up in Seattle, Washington at the time, AEI Audio Environments Inc., and their lobby's loaded with all of Journey's platinum and gold because they played up nationwide like you can't believe on their in-house proprietary music systems. We did big promotions with all their people and access to Journey tickets and merchandise and meet and greets and things like that and oh my God the airplay we got from that was incredible. So every shoe store, shopping mall, restaurant from the Rusty Scuppers to Houstons, you know, there it is. Getting all that airplay, those are all gross impressions and they cume up to a level of recognition and familiarity that makes people really believe that those songs were hit songs. They were heard so much it just wasn't on normal, it certainly wasn't on contemporary hit radio which is how you get a hit single.

Yeah exactly, in the classical sense.
Anything and every kind of radio but that, you know.

You were credited over those years with taking Journey further than maybe they would have gone on their own as well as building the whole idea of a live touring circuit weren't you?
Yeah, it was kind of a sneak attack because when the industry is used to a certain methodology as to how it works and how hit bands work what kind of hit it takes on the radio to go platinum, what it takes in terms of contemporary hit, CHR they called it at the time, radio. R&R Parallel One stations was the bible at that time and we weren't getting any of that yet selling millions of records. This is totally beneath the radar and one of the other techniques was we would fashion the most fantastic radio spots that would emphasize our emphasis track that we wanted the most airplay on and we would run those. Sixty second spots back in the day when radio was cheap to buy. In the '70s it was cheap, cheap, cheap, and we'd pound those and you know those radio spots were airplay. They were cumes [accumulations], they were gross impressions and you know, they're proving that theory right now in the most recent Apple campaigns. The music today that they're using on the new Apple Ipod or the new Air [laptop] da-do-da-do-do and all of a sudden you're singing the song and that's the way it works. Familiarity creates comfort which creates a transaction. So that's what it was all about, how to cume up gross impressions of a band that is not radio friendly in a disco world.
In a disco world and another thing that was very effected was the artwork at that time. Creating a unique, highly recognized imagery within your target demographic so when they see it, so by the time we got to the Escape album it did not have to say Journey on it. And what I would suggest is, no matter how that lineup is perceived, if Jon Cain all of a sudden comes in and it's the classic lineup, OK, OK, but there was a bed there already a base of sales. They'd already sold 12 - 14 million records by then. Across Infinity, Evolution, Departure and Captured, you betcha. Look at all those records. I think Infinity's quadruple platinum, I would imagine Evolution is, I would think Departure's at least triple platinum and the double album, I know Captured is past double platinum.
A double album past double platinum and at a time when lots of live albums come out and no one fared that well, the Eagles or anybody. So they had a hell of a thing going and the way we said Escape was E5C4P3 and the way we wrote the band's name, it looked like Russian and a lot of people never figured out how you had to turn it on it's side to see it say Journey and that was only on the shrink wrap. There were some graphics on the actual album cover itself, but when we initially put it out it was just the egg with the scarab Escape vehicle busting out of it. That's it. Then they made us change it and put some stuff on it. We didn't need to. Blew, blew units out everybody knew what that was. It didn't need to have a name on it. Then of course, right then and there is when Steve Perry really wanted to muck with the formula. You know, he really wanted to put things through a lot of changes.

In the years you've had to reflect on that have you come to a definitive conclusion as to why he wanted those changes?
No, he'd send Sigmund Freud to the hills, screaming and rippin' out his hair. (laughter) He's a tough nut to figure.
Who knows, it's probably very petty jealousies or whatever. It seemed like he wanted, you know it was especially revealing to me when we had his solo album and I was managing him with Street Talk, and the song Oh Sherrie, and I mean I tell ya, he really had a gun to Journey's head right then. He had me, and I was just committed, I'm gonna make this happen because also as a manager it was going to be what I felt would be a very rewarding thing for me to know that in view of the failures of virtually every major artist coming out of a major group to have success on their own. The members of Pink Floyd, or Hall & Oates, or the Cars or any band that was huge. Aerosmith or any of theses guys, they do solo records and it's a dud. Phil Collins at that point had failed to go gold on Face Value and the one record that had come out as a solo record that had done extraordinarily well, virtually the same time, was Bella Donna, Stevie Nicks. She did triple platinum and we did more than double platinum in just America alone on Steve Perry's Street Talk. And I can tell you honestly, he denigrated me at every possible opportunity and said that I sandbagged him, that I fucked him, and I you know, and that the record of course should have been much bigger than Escape and showing total ignorance to the concept of branding and what we had built over so many years.
That was '84. We had incorporated Journey, or Nightmare to furnish the services of Journey in March of '73. So here's eleven years of building a brand and a business and he wants to eclipse it with his first release. And if he doesn't I have failed and even though there is a history of nothing but abject failure on solo projects.
So I don't know man, it's like fighting the impossible fight. I remember one time he phoned me at my house and just went nuts about Be Good To Yourself having been the first choice of a single off of Raised on Radio. And I said, it's a great song, it's a great production, it's great sound, it's Journey. That was the problem.
It sounds too much like Journey. Well too many of the other songs sound too much like a glorified Steve Perry solo record. You'll have to remember on Raised on Radio is when he had me remove Ross Valory and Steve Smith from the band. Of course that was completely ridiculous and I forced him to pay them as if they were there on the tour and everything.

Absolutely, that's what I think you do for your people. There's very little chance that Ross Valory or Steve Smith would remember it let alone reciprocate but that is the honest to God truth. I made sure they were taken care of. I thought it was patently ridiculous and thought that Steve Smith was one of the best drummers on the planet.

And still is.
And he has been recognized as such I believe for longer than anybody in history as the best drummer in the country for something like twenty years running.

What do you think Steve Perry's problem with Ross and Steve was? I mean they were hardly the decision makers of the band.
No, because he wanted to divide and conquer. There was a real relationship I thought with Steve as regards my relationship, my father/son relationship with Neal Schon. It was a pretty serious thing as I would say to people half serious, half in jest half as the truth of the world, I would say 'This is my Neal Schon, he didn't turn out that good.' (laughs) And I'm not talking about him as a guitar player at that point, obviously not, I'm his biggest fan.
These guys, when they screw the pooch not only can they not learn commitment, anything that comes along that they like better they get uncommitted real fast. And when they make a booboo, and booboos happen and the thing is when I make a mistake I have no expectation or notion of unringing the bell or puttin' the bite back in the apple. It doesn't occur to me. To them it's the gospel, of course that's possible, which I find hilarious. I find that humorous. That part of the business I surely don't miss. Management is a rough go, I tell ya.

Oh, I don't know how anybody could live on the road or get into that 24/7. It's hard enough just being a commentator on it.
You know at the end, especially on Raised on Radio, Steve Perry insisted I be on the road. It made it very, very difficult to do my job vis-à-vis phones and access because in those days, even in '86, you didn't have cell phones. You know, I mean we barely had the advent of fax machines and thank God for that, know what I mean? I spent my life on the road with no electronics, no benefits of the computer age.

Yeah I guess people forget about that. How did you do it?
It was so frickin' hard Andrew. I'd be in some country in Europe or the Orient and just run to a pay phone and oh my God, foreign currency, foreign languages, numbers, prefixes, country codes, man I wanted to go beat somebody up at a bus stop. (laughter) Just for the hell of it (laughter) just to take my aggressions out on someone.

It is amazing how quickly we get used to the technology we have and can't imagine life without it. But not too long ago – we didn't have it at all.
It's really true and now they really do have modern conveniences. But you know, oddly enough, and this was the least anticipated thing in my life, after I retired from management for some frickin' crazy reason I decided to become an artist and sing and play a little guitar. I had a total ball, and you know, played the Filmore 18 times with the legendary Sy Klopps blues band []. All the best venues, all over the west, all over the country really with Sy Klopps and just really enjoyed it. When I stopped from that and they retired on the stage at the Fillmore, Bill Kreutzmann said you and your guitar player and me, let's form a band and we'll do Robert Hunter songs and so I said sure, let's do it. We created this band called the Trichromes and got up, got on a tour bus, went for six weeks with Bob Wier's RatDog and Phil and Friends and I had the complete touring experience. And not like a Journey, we were the opening band. And when the tour was over I told an audience of 40,000 at Alpine Valley what a revelation, what a joy, what a breeze, what an extreme fallacio everyday. Just a blowjob, you get treated so well you know I was ready to get on the bus and start it all over again the next morning. I thought that on those buses on tour you got no sleep and that the labor board could literally make an argument that me and my production company, Nocturne, which is one of the preeminent production companies in the world today and we have so many tours and so many crews that they'd come and make an argument that this is 24 hour 7 day a week employment and you have to pay overtime on every hour. They're on a bus, it's not restful sleep they're working the whole time and I just had all these nightmares going on thinking of business exposure and so forth. Then when I went and did it I've never slept so good in my life. And everybody else was that way. It was just phenomenal. I mean so what the hell and all these years I'd given these artists the benefit of the doubt I was so naïve and wrong. It was just, you know, I mean let me tell you, that isn't work. If any one of those guys could walk in a manager's shoes one hour they would be exhausted and require hospitalization.

I can imagine it. I've seen it and I wouldn't want to do it.
You know, when I was Sy Klopps I never did a single thing. Pat Morrow was the manager of Sy Klopps and I never picked up the phone and said a business word one time. He did a brilliant job. When I was a manager I knew I was management, was the key catalyst, and when I became an artist I got that reconfirmed yet again.
I know I'm drifting astray and I know you have more questions.

I could probably spend a week talking to you because I love the industry and I love the business so it's a privilege to talk to you.
And you're in Australia and Journey was never really happening there.

You know what? I actually got into Journey originally via Steve Perry's Street Talk album in 1984 because Oh Sherrie was a huge hit single here and that voice!
But Journey – although every album was released here – never had a big hit single here and had never toured here.

He [Steve Perry] didn't do any touring really for that record. I got him finally to do Oh Sherrie on tour with Journey.

You did? I always figured that was Steve's idea.
Yes it was my Idea so as to moot the need for solo touring on Steve's part. Journey also performed Don't Fight It - the song Steve did with Kenny Logins and Foolish Heart too.
Then, when he tried to do his theater tour as Steve Perry with Lincoln Brewster and…

…In '94…
That was I guess very much a struggle. There were certain cities where he booked and calendared and then postponed, then calendared and postponed then ultimately cancelled and never played the market. Couldn't get well, couldn't sing, I didn't see any of that tour but I just heard that it was pretty rough.

Steve hasn't performed live since that point and has only recorded one album - Trial by Fire with Journey again.
Trial by Fire…I listened to that one time and not one lift off. Not one moment of this is gonna go somewhere. Monotone, monotone, I don't know what was going on with that. They really genuflected and signed all these agreement to try to supposedly get him to make a record and tour and I told Neal Schon that I swore on everything holy that he would never tour. 'He'll never do it; I promise you that, I'll bet my net worth'. He didn't take me up on the bet but I was of course right.

That was the last time that Steve was seen with the band. Just about every other band on the planet has reformed at some point since then, including many of them doing it now, but there is absolutely no sign of Steve Perry ever returning from the fray is there?
I really don't think so and to be honest with you I don't think it would be desirable. I mean just in a fantasy world. People want to remember back to a fantastic time when a great, there was a moment when surely Steve Perry was the foremost, contemporary vocal stylist in America. I believe that. Male vocal stylist, he was right there on point. Everybody loved that voice and he touched many people with songs, many of which that Jon Cain wrote like Faithfully and Open Arms. Man they hate it when I tell that story about Open Arms. You know about how they were fuckin' just denigrating Steve and just talking stink. He's in there trying to sing Open Arms with Kevin Elson, Mike Stone and I'm goin' 'he's singin' his heart out, he's tryin' to nail this fuckin' thing'.
I mean you know it was (whiney voice) 'Is that Perry Como, and its so frou-frou' and they're just teasing him awfully. I took Neal and Jon into the backroom and go 'What the fuck are you doin' man? He's obviously written a fantastic song.' Jon Cain goes 'He didn't write that, I wrote that.' And I was stunned. I just looked at him and my mouth dropped open, it go 'Just making your behavior all the more remarkable, unbelievable.' Sometimes man, you can write a brilliant song, (idiot voice) duhhuh, duhhuh, but if I asked you to think it might hurt you.

So they were in the studio giving shit to Steve while he was recording?
Totally giving him shit. I mean seriously giving him shit.

I don't get that.
Anti-inspirational to the max.

I guess Jon Cain and Neal Schon really have become the partnership that has held the band together over all these years.
Well I guess so. I really don't know about the inner workings and the chemistry of it. To me it's always been a situation where I felt that from way back that they should just move on from Steve Perry. I'm talkin' I wanted them to move on in '84.

I heard you wanted that. That would have been an interesting twist.
For them to allow him [Perry] to hold the band hostage, and the money in '84 and '85 and every year thereafter because that '86 money could have been just a real Journey tour with just a replacement singer and this kid they have now [Arnel Pineda] can sing that material right now in the original keys in a very credible way and there's no way Steve Perry could touch that.

I'm gonna come back to this in a minute… but right now, in '84, the mid '80s if they'd have made a break, a similar sort of break as what happened with Van Halen in '86. They brought in Hagar and did a left turn with their sound and they lost some fans but won some others - just like Journey did in '78.
Exactly, that's when they shifted to Sammy Hagar from David Lee Roth. Right exactly and that was a brilliant move and very effective and you know I made a solo record that you may have in your collection called Hagar, Schon, Aaronson, Shrieve.

Absolutely, love it, for sure.
And you know, we know Sammy really well. He's one of our best friends, he comes to our birthday parties and yadda, yadda, yadda.

Oh I love Sammy. I'm an absolute diehard Sammy Hagar fan.
Yeah exactly, he's a great friend and of course we knew intimately. And of course I love the story of the '78 Journey tour with Journey, Montrose and Van Halen. The tour started on March 1 in Racine, Wisconsin 1978. And I said, 'Hey Neal, be sure to get a look at the opening band. I want you to go and see them and give me a call.' Then I got out to Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland, the big cities, Pittsburg, Philly, every time I'd say 'Hey Neal, you seen the opening band yet?' He goes, 'No man, I never get there on time. I'll do it, I'll do it.' When I finally get to New York, I'm sittin' in the lobby, Pat Morrow the road manager brings 'em in. He's taken them out to the NEW radio and the Sam Goody stores and all that and they got just enough time to grab their clothes and maybe a little bit of food and I say 'hey Neal have you seen the opening band' and he goes 'no' and I say 'give your room key to Pat. He'll bring your guitars and all your shit. You're going with me right now'. I took him to the theater. We were sold out 3500 people and I said let's just walk in and sit down. We walk in the front door and sit down and he looks around and says, 'Where's all the people?' I go 'the people don't come until very late. I mean hardly anybody sees this band'.
And even when we were done there was maybe a thousand people out of 3500 when their set was over. But when they started playing Running With the Devil and You Really Got Me and Jamie's Crying and all that stuff, and all the guitars Neal was just blown away. Blown away and he says 'man I gotta meet that guy, I gotta learn that stuff and I mean, you think he'll teach me that shit?' (laughter) I says 'man if you'll teach him some of those melodies you come up with'. He say 'whadaya mean'. I go, 'the man can't believe the melodies'. 'You mean he watches me?' I said, 'He watches your every note.' On this whole tour he hasn't missed a note you played and you haven't seen him once. So from then on he never missed a note. And they've become very good friends.

Ok, to jump to another point as far as touring – it seems that playing live is about the only way to make money in this business these days? The pressure is on a big tour.
Well now wait a minute.

Don't get stuck in the old, tired, fucked up, ground into the ground model of the traditional exploitive record, you know, Columbia records deal. Well you know, even though Journey had a 37% royalty, hey a phenomenal deal and they were well paid by any standard, but still it doesn't compare at all to what a single freestanding retailer can do for you. What Victoria's Secret did for Spice Girls or Target or Best Buy or certainly a classic example that Journey's following because of Irv Azoff,…

…is the deal with WalMart, absolutely. They blew through 3 million units for the Eagles faster than the record business did back in the, unless you could go back to the peak in the early '80s or something.

It's a phenomenal number isn't it?
It really is. I mean if out of one location WalMart's nationwide and a double album, priced right, $11.99, if they paid the band $8 a unit or something like that, a mountain of money, you know. Twenty four million or something like that and it's not a loss-leader.
WalMart makes money now Journey's gonna have the 11 new songs, the 11 old songs, the DVD that Nocturne is shooting right now.
WalMart's gonna price that really well and Journey's got, I mean this is a chance. The new Eagles record was very, very good and if they can get airplay and have a hit off of that record, wow. I mean it's defying the odds almost unbelievably. Having a hit is like moonwalking on water.

You once, I've gotta quote you on this, you once said that you had a better chance of your dick growing another foot than Journey had of having another hit single.
I admit it. That's what I said. I've got a better chance of my dick growing a foot. Sure I'd love it to happen but it's not very likely, and actually upon further review I'm not sure I'd love it to happen. But anyway, it's just the likelihood. I think I'd stand by that quote and I think the Eagles have just done what I've said. They've just walked on water.
For the 60 year old set to come out and you know Journey can make a great new record. Especially with someone who can still go somewhere with their voice in that tenor range. The songs have to live. The whole idea with Journey was songs that started someplace, took you somewhere, and resolved that and brought you back. Which is a very difficult thing, most guitarists, if they know how to launch a solo and keep it interesting for more than twelve bars, they don't know how to resolve it. That's another thing that Neal's a master at.

Brings it back into the song doesn't he?
Yeah he does and so they could make a fantastic record. I have no doubt about that. The point is how do you get it listened to? How do you get it heard? I mean the business has so hopelessly, for so long, been a contemporary youth oriented business that they have walked away from multimillion dollar brands.
Columbia let Chicago and Heart and Journey and Santana and all these brands that they branded for so long, let 'em go away and they're a huge success. Heart at Capitol, Chicago and Warner Brothers, Santana obviously with Clive Davis but previously with Polygram. What the fuck are they thinkin'? What the fuck? This stuff took so long and so much money to cume up the gross impressions over such a long duration to become nigh onto, if not a household word. This is the hardest thing to achieve.
Madison Avenue looks down their nose at the record business because these guys don't know a thing about selling records. And they were so right, and now everybody thinks they can pick off the record business. It must be embarrassing.
And the precipitous slide into the abyss, do you know when it started? When Steve Jobs took fuckin' a week to get every CEO, every president in the fuckin' music business to drink the Kool-aid. And give their entire catalogs, opening Pandora's digital box, and that shit will never get back in the box, and that's all master recordings going out digitally. And the way music is stored, distributed, sold and listened to has completely changed and they're not invited to the party.
They get paid for their catalog, a little bit, but the real beneficiary is Steve Jobs who really dominates the business from not only software and the delivery side of it but also the hardware and how people listen. The biggest mogul in the history of the business and I think he spent a weekend figuring out how to be the biggest music business mogul in history. He's also the biggest motion picture mogul in history. And he's a majority share holder of Disney all of a sudden. And so this is really important stuff.
Then everybody else said yeah, let's go pick off the record business. And I mean everybody from Starbucks to Victoria's Secret thinks they can do it better and you know what? They're right. They couldn't fuck it up, I mean, by accident they could do it better than the record industry with focus.
Now, if you want a label to push the button you'd better be ready to give up your soul. I never, you know, if Journey, if Jon Cain, or any of these guys wanted to really be honest, and say wow, what was the greatest luxury than Herbie Herbert ever afforded me as an artist? They never had a record company executive step anywhere near them in the studio, in the songwriting process or any part of the creative process.
We completely controlled everything vertically; album covers, the content, the songs. I sequenced each one of those records, and somehow fought to get the record covers the way they were, and I named all the albums. That's what you need, is to have some focus like that. It's not an ego trip, it's marketing expertise. It's branding expertise.
I have nothing invested in this egowise. I would just like to make my living and do what I think I can get done here. So from my point of view that got stopped and mucked up quite a bit. There was no reason for them not to continue in '84, '85, '86.
They could have been a polished Grateful Dead and that was my model as a deadhead. I wanted to just have them, and they were so huge in merchandizing and you know what else? The Journey Force Fanclub was a force to be reckoned with. We really had created the virtual affinity group, but it was physical, it wasn't virtual. It wasn't virtual, it was physical. It wasn't in the computer age. It was physical mailing lists. Well we did have computers. We had the first program that would manage our fanclub and automatically print labels and weigh and sticker and send out newsletters and the whole thing. And they had such a high membership, I think 600,000 at one point.
That list, they sold the fanclub, disregarded it, and just thought that had no value. They almost thought of it as an albatross and a liability. They sold it to Tim McQuaid who ran the Force. He turned it into Fan Asylum [] and turned it into a very successful business. He sold in the internet age and made seven figures. And it was the very same computer tool set that he bought, no modifications. And we invented all those things that you get when you're in a fanclub and go to the box office up until an hour before show time, show your Journey Force card and buy up to five tickets near the front, fifth row or closer and we would hold those seats. Then and hour before the show we'd send them out front with a bullhorn and just fuck over the scalpers. Any leftover fifth row seats, face value at the box office, right here and people would run standing in front of the scalpers right at the box office. You know, and it was just a fantastic thing the way that worked. We invented the travel packages. And you could travel with the band and do the meet and greets. These things were phenomenal.
The velvet rope concept, all those things were created by the Force. These are things that are so valuable now and they just walked away from the whole tool set. They could have just been making their own CDs since they were dropped from Columbia and selling them like Ani DiFranco direct to their own active hot list that by now would have been converted to active email addresses and everything electronically and been completely in business.

So they missed a real opportunity there?
They just don't understand that there's something more to it than just writing songs and singing and playing. That business component of it and the thing is I was pretty much solely focused on that. All the other activities were done in the vacuum of their absence. They said well we're not gonna, even after Raised on Radio in '86, I said fuck it then, I'm gonna do this band Europe from Sweden. I got the job for Kevin Elson to produce it, I'm gonna break it, they released it, they failed, I'm gonna rerelease it and make it a home run. I was playing it for Jeff McClusky and Jerry Mickelson on the back of a band bus outside of the Rosemont Horizon on Journey's Raised on Radio tour, and Steve and Neal came into the back of the bus and said 'oh man that's tired and in the weeds. That'll never happen'.
That was The Final Countdown. It went fuckin' #1 all over the world. (laughter)

Yeah, that did pretty well.
Yeah, then I did the Roxette project and that was very successful, almost dominated the charts there for several years.

Oh they were probably, I was in retail at the time, a record store, and Roxette were the biggest band around.
Yeah and I got them from the get go. I broke The Look here in this country and I there was no looking back, you know what I mean. And I had four #1s, three #2s and two top 15s in two years and sold 60 million records around the world.

That's gotta be good for everything!
Yeah that was fantastic. I just got a big hardbound book in the mail, all in Swedish about Per Gessler [Roxette guitarist] and I looked to see if they had any pictures of me anywhere. But I was a folk hero when that was happening because of what happened with Europe and what happened with Roxette and another Swedish band called the Electric Boys. They were very good, toured with Mr. Big and Hardline, one of Neal's bands.

I saw that show. I saw that show in Marin County California in '92.
Ok, so you know all three bands, Electric Boys and Mr. Big and Hardline. I thought that was a good tour.

Oh, it was a phenomenal lineup. I love Hardline. I'm a huge fan, actually I'm a very good friend of Eric Martin.
Well there ya go and I worked with him for 12 years before I could finally break, that was a long story breaking that To Be With You single. I traded all my Grateful Dead memorabilia for that hit. It's a long story but I mean that was very, very rewarding because you know, I had a lot of people say well you did that thing with Journey and you know you're pretty lucky. And I say 'Lucky, man the harder I worked the luckier I got.' They just kept drumming me on being lucky. I go yeah I must have a horse shoe buried right in my ass. You know but then, Europe, that wasn't luck. I levitated a dead project. Roxette, that wasn't luck. Everybody in the business, everybody turned me down on Roxette. And EMI, I got the record getting played here in this country then EMI changed their mind and said OK, we'll keep it and go forward so I worked with EMI. But right at the last second Doug Morris said, I want it, I want it. I said Doug you waited too long I wanted to make this deal a long time ago. But Roxette, that worked out well and then I did the Mr Big deal with Doug Morris instead. That worked out well too, so you know when you just start taking them all from the garage all the way to #1, I never had a #1 with Journey.

Yeah, isn't that strange?
Number 2 with Open Arms hopelessly behind Endless Love Dianna Ross and Lionel Richie. So I said I'm gonna do this. I got to #2 with Carrie by Europe again and then with Roxette I finally had my first #1 and then with Mr. Big that was my last #1.

Well you deserved that.
That was the fifth single off that Mr. Big record.

Yeah I know. I have the records. I bought the first Mr. Big album the week it was released because I loved all the guys individually and I thought wow what an amazing idea.
You know, I was trying to do them on a legitimate, you know, as a shredder band. And the first single was Addicted to That Rush. I was bold. I wanted to have the real thing. I didn't want to homogenize those guys but eventually if you wanna fuckin' have broad based appeal you've gotta go with something that gets you that hit. And you know, To Be With You, boom. All of a sudden they sell 10 million records around the world. So how do you argue with that?

Eric Martin keeps telling me that's a song that just keeps on giving.
It is a song that keeps on giving. Yeah, that's the one that probably pays his rent to this very day.

Absolutely, yeah, just jumping back to Journey – looking back over the years - they seem to have a history of dramatic vocalist changes don't they?
Well, but how about from Tommy Johnston in the Doobie Brothers to Michael MacDonald? From China Groove to Takin' it to the Streets all of a sudden, totally different voice, what did the new voice get, four or five Grammies. You know, and so you can make these changes. You have to just have to be bold and go forward. And you know at that point I have every right to say God dammit, I wanted to do that with Journey and they were just chicken and the left a lot of chips on the table for what I call in reality 15 years. From '83, because in '84 they should have moved, and so you go from '83 to '98 that's 15 years. How are they ever gonna make up for that lost time?
I mean shit, I got tired of waiting and then when I'd waited all that time and they were ready to go forward they wanted to go with Steve Perry and I told them from the get go that we were gonna have to write a letter and say that we were doing this and offer it to Steve Perry. But in the event that he accepts I'm going to have to decline because at that point it's been about nine years of utter bliss not having to see him or talk to him or deal with his craziness. Man hey, once bitten twice shy. I'm not going back. I have a profound philosophy that our president, Bush, is incapable of articulating but it's very simple. Fuck me once shame on you, fuck me twice shame on me.

You're on record as saying that Steve Augeri was a good choice and a top bloke, and we all know he was a top bloke, but things ended on a negative note for him also.
I don't know what their relationship was like but I thought at first blush, looking at Steve Augeri I like his body language, I liked his look on stage, until I realized it's either hard drive or, you know, and often he would drop his microphone and the vocal would continue. And even for me, it took me a while to realize, Oh, it's not necessarily a hard drive there, you have Deen Castronovo, who could in fact do an even more credible Steve Perry and especially on the ballads. And so on the ballads Augeri would drop his mic and the note would be held and I finally realized.
Because he's got that little teeny bend-around microphone or headset that Deen has and it's not like you can really tell when he's singing. Without video screens, that's where video becomes so crucial. It really does so you can see that. If you're at the mixing board that's invisible, you're not looking at somebody's lips move. At least not me anymore.
I'm sure they passed it off as something for medical reasons or whatever and leaving a notion or tone that maybe he could be returned or that he could return to the band but I think not.
I think it was real and I think that even if you were in fine voice, as maybe this gentleman from the Philippines is right now, this is a rugged expectation.
And to really make it pencil financially you really want to try to get to and try to maintain at least a four night a week date density. This is easy to do in the northeast but very difficult to do in the west because it's so far apart between markets like LA, San Francisco, Seattle. And the secondary markets like Fresno, Sacramento, and Eugene don't yield much more than you're production nut. In some cases it's really hard and so where do you get a third and a fourth show? So it's very hard to route with and density in the West and when you have a high density to pay the bills then you run the risk of vocal hardship.

Yeah, which unfortunately and sadly happened with Steve Augeri.
I think it becomes a chronic problem. The pressures of live performance and you know it's just singing one time too many in any given week and you get a little rough and then it makes it rougher and you need recovery time. And you know what? As you get older you need more and more of it [recovery time].

Yeah, and you were saying at the beginning of the interview that modern technology allows you to make compensations for that.
That's exactly right. So realizing the horrific financial ramifications of failed performances or inability to perform or muddle through it or whatever, I can certainly understand the underlying reasons why they would potentially do this.
But you don't do it as a matter of practice on an everyday basis. You do it on an emergency basis and then you allow the band to have some latitude, some spontaneity for Neal Schon to play an extra eight bars on a solo if he feels like it. Expose one or two links in that choke chain, loosen it up a little bit but it's tight. It's really a tight thing.
I would want to get out from that noose. I've had that conversation with Neal any number of times. Why don't you just loosen that up a little bit. It feels a little regimented through the material.

Now you're talking about the band using a click track? []
Yeah exactly, I mean you're stuck. You've got to nail the exact arrangement, the exact meter and you cannot deviate or vary from that meter. So once that song's clicked off you'd better hold tempo perfect. You know what? I love click tracks from a meter standpoint. I think timing makes the music, tuning makes the musician. You really, when the time and the meter is really right, it gives power to the music and when you have bad meter you can't dance to it and you fall in a heap.

And after Steve Augeri came Jeff Scott Soto.
I really didn't think that Jeff Scott Soto was the right choice.

He has much more of an alto voice. There was a lot of material, especially Raised on Radio material like I'll Be Alright Without You that he might have done really well on but if you're gonna try to do the really high songs like You've Got Something to Hide or La Do Da or whatever, I can't recall, I went and saw them in concert and there was a bunch of material that was so far out of his reach he was just as bad as Augeri at his worst so you can't. If you make a change it's gotta be an upgrade. Kevin Chalfant would have been a much better choice at that point. Kevin Chalfant would be a much better point now. I don't know.

But they have gone with Arnel Pineda.
I've listened to the record that he has made and the songs that they've chosen on this 11 song thing and the performances are very credible. Have you heard it?

Oh no, I'm eagerly anticipating it though. Have you heard it already?
Yeah I've got a copy of that and it's in my truck. I listened to it and I thought he did a very good job. I gotta tell ya.

With the re-recording of the old hits, the sacred ground so to speak?
Yeah, sacred ground, well how sacred is it? Anybody is given leave to do that.
They're public domain now. Kevin Chalfant, anybody can do a Journey Greatest Hits record and see how they fair. You know and provided this is, I just think he does pretty good, pretty damned good.

Well here you're talking about a singer competing with the world's greatest melodic vocalist at his prime in Steve Perry, so to come close is probably doing extraordinarily well.
Yes that's right. I think I agree with that completely. To come close and he comes better than close.

Wow, I'm really pleased to hear such an enthusiastic endorsement.
I guess many fans are worried about the band treading on sacred ground by re-recording those tracks. Why do it?

Look at Frank Sinatra - he comes into the world and he puts together a string of hits that was formidable for Columbia Records and has a whole career. Well then he wants to come out west. He gets offered a boatload of money and a huge royalty to record for Capitol. So of course, sacred ground although it was he re-recorded the entire catalog for Capitol and it was hugely successful. I mean this is the stuff dreams are made of and he was such an important artist you can't imagine. I mean Steve Perry, I took Steve Perry and Steve Smith to see one of Nocturne's tours and it was on the opening night in Oakland Coliseum. Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis and Dean Martin, ya know, and I said 'come and see the classics. You'll see Dean was the inventor or smooth before Perry Como and Andy Williams and all these guys'. This was the guy and you'll see so much of Michael Jackson and the dance moves and everything from Sammy Davis and then when the Chairman of the Board gets out here, phrasing, delivery, material he's just gonna hammer you. Of course that happened. Steve was impressed. How can you not be? And so then Warner Brothers came along and said 'we'll give you your own label and a mountain of money if you'll do it again'. So then he recorded it all again for Reprise. Now what happens is, in these contracts there are provisions for re-recording clauses and usually a re-recording clause would elapse in seven years at the outside and often in five. So then your re-recording restriction has expired. Now it's your song. You're allowed to re-record it and if you can re-record it somewhere and get it fresh and have a new mechanical royalty for it at the current statutory rate and get a new artist royalty for it from a new label or a much higher royalty from alternate means from re-recording it, go for it. I was one of the guys in fact advising guys to follow the Frank Sinatra model and do just that.

This is great. I really wanted to hear your take on this so this is interesting.
It's a way to generate revenue. I had Steve Miller put his greatest hit together and re-recorded them and I sold it to Arcade in Europe for TV advertising. I sold it to my buddy Michael Gudinski at Mushroom Records [legendary Australian record label] and got a gold album on my wall, from a re-recorded Greatest Hits by Steve Miller. All new sell it to Michael Gudinski, made the deal myself. Is he still kickin' around down there?

He most certainly is.
Good, he's a good man.

Yes he is he's done a lot for music in this country. So basically you're saying don't get hung up on the original because you've already got them?
Right and you know sometimes this stuff gets re-recorded and is much better. It's much better. One artist and manager that took my advice and actually came to my studio to do it was Bill Thompson with the Jefferson Starship and Mickey Thomas and we took these records and these tracks and I remember one day we figured out that the average cost of each track of their greatest hits record was in excess of $150,000. Many of them were produced by guys like Ron Nevison and Peter Wolf and yadda, yadda, yadda, and I said let's come in, and I really believe in today's age with all of our new, modern recording technology, that in complete A-B comparisons we can smoke every aspect of every one of your greatest hits. Deeper, broader bandwidth, better stereo soundstage, better tuning and timing and record quality, reduce of noise floor and I mean the only thing that would be questionable is the quality of the vocal performance. If you can deliver that vocal as well or better than the original we can absolutely eclipse all the original recordings. And we did that and we did it for $15,000 for 15 songs.
So when you have a second shot at it, you know like 'Boy would I like to have another whack at that.' And sometimes you can hit it out of the park. You know what? I always felt that with Journey. So when I was putting together the Greatest Hits or putting together the Boxed Set [Time 3], I remember this, I'll admit to this, I always favored the track live off of Captured that Kevin Elson produced. For instance, as compared to the horrible recording quality in truth, although trendy and the moment and with lots of oral excitation and layered tracks, but those Roy Thomas Baker tracks on Infinity and Evolution were wanting. I mean if you listen the Wheel In The Sky off of Infinity and the bass drum and everything else even for 1978 it was almost kind of a medieval recording style. You know I really, I just thought he did a piss poor job. I really didn't like Roy Thomas Baker. And you have great songs which is the nucleus, the epicenter of our business, and so they had great songs and they had great performances. What was really bad was the way it was recorded. I remember going to Cherokee and he was playing back the songs and he'd blown up the speakers and I said please Roy, don't play it back so damned loud. I want to hear it so I'm insisting that I don't want it to go over 104 DBs. So I'm listening back at that level and I'm hearing this rattling and this ticky-tacky like somebody's got BBs in a plastic bottle or shaking a canasta or something. It's just awful. I'm hearing this and they couldn't hear it. It was driving me crazy. Finally I reached over to the knob on the board and turned the sound off and was gonna yell at him. But then the minute I turned the soundboard off and the speakers down I still heard the rattling, even louder. I said there it is, it's really loud. And I looked to the left of me and there was what he insisted on using. His own Stephens 40 track recorder, and every VU meter and every needle was tick-tacking pinning. Totally pinning itself and red lining and making almost drum rolls. Forty meters rattling and that was what was making all the racket. And I looked and I said look at this thing. You're so over-saturating tape it's creating compression and limiting just from over-saturation. You're just pushing the life out of this recording. And so, if you take songs like, whatever, Lights or Feelin' That Way or any of those songs from Infinity or Evolution or Departure and the Captured versions are usually vastly superior.

On the new recordings, are there any one or two or three songs that you thought the band really nailed? I don't even know what songs they've rerecorded yet.
Oh, I don't have the list in front of me. I remember there being, they did 11. There are more songs that need to be recorded than 11. I remember being pleasantly surprised that they did Stone in Love. They didn't do Ask the Lonely which was always one of my favorites. Ask the Lonely and Only the Young were originally on the Frontiers album.

And they should have been, what great songs.
What great songs and instead they were pulled off and Backtalk, because Steve Smith wrote it and he voted in on, it was a terrible glorified Bo Diddley, and Troubled Child, a real down Roger Waters kind of you know, funeral dirge kind of thing.
I feel that with Ask the Lonely and Only the Young, and with the original Frontiers artwork, not the space alien last ditch effort to get the record out on time because he rejected the Kelly/Mouse cover which was brilliant, I think it would have eclipsed Escape. But he really didn't want that.

He really didn't want that and then of course when his record didn't sell as well then he kinda wanted to sabotage the Raised on Radio thing and bring Journey down to the level of him on his solo project. And getting rid of Smith and Valory and destroying and you know it's not a matter, I would say to Steve Perry, it wasn't a matter of what you want it's about your fans and the fans of this band. They're not all here to see or here your. Ross has his fans. Steve has his fans. I have to believe, especially with the way Steve Smith has gone on and the accolades he's received in his career and how Ross has continued to perform at an high level, you know, that, you know, dude you were wrong. I mean, Hello.

I saw there was an alternative cover for Raised On Radio also.
Yes there were multiple covers on Raised On Radio. At least two other than the one used.

And now, 22 years later fans are still debating the whole Raised On Radio album.
Oh are they really?

Absolutely, people still argue the point on…
…whether it's even a Journey record or not.

That and the whole change of style and where the record fits into the Journey legacy.
That's interesting. I never knew that until this moment that they were astute enough to realize it's hard to call that a Journey record.

I should send you a link to my forum, or maybe I should do you a favor and not send you a link! But it's arguing in the most infinite detail over the band and Raised on Radio is a constant. The whole lineup, the tour, the sound of the album, some people say it's their favorite album and some people hate it.
I have to admit it cost more than all the other Journey records put together. The guy, Bob Clearmountain you know, it's a very well done thing but it's just a bastardization of Journey. It's a corruption of the formula. It's very good, great songwriting, songs like Girl Can't Help It, I love I'll Be Alright Without You.

Oh I love the album. I think it's great but it's a different beast isn't it?
Yeah, it's a different beast and Randy Jackson, I don't know if you ever see him on American Idol and Journey being his claim to fame.

I can't take him seriously sometimes.
Yeah I know 'Yo dude yo.'

I see him with that hairdo from '86 and the clothes!
It's pretty rough and they've actually showed videos of him wearing those clothes on American Idol. Hey dude, your lack of humility knows no bounds. I mean wow, that could be embarrassing. But I guess it's so dated that he, you know, and it's his link to credibility really. Everything else, well he was just a hired side guy there too.

Purely hypothetically speaking here, but during the mid '80s with Steve and the band on the road, if technology had been available then, could you see Steve or the band using technology to assist their performances?
Well yes, well I don't know. We were doing it and had the technology and were triggering Akai samplers on background vocals and were perfectly capable of doing it on any lead vocal we wanted to on the Raised on Radio tour.

Yes, we pioneered this technology. We were, you know, that's my thing, production, so they had somebody right there. I'm managing, but I'm right from the back of the truck and I want to be on the leading edge. Just like Steve Miller was the first national tour to have in-ear monitors and it created a whole revolution. No monitors on stage, no equipment on stage. Everything off stage, just drums and keyboards and that's it. No speakers on stage, nothing, clean, clean, clean stages and I was certainly all about that in the Journey stage design. We carried our own stage and we were so oriented in sound, lights and production. We owned all that stuff, and you know, I'll tell ya, it's somewhat of a phenomenon that as egocentric as the music business is that other bands would unabashedly approach us for production services being so enamored and see these Journey tours and be so impressed that they would swallow their pride and come to us and ask us to do it for them.
Whether it was The Who on their farewell tour wanting their set designed and video on their '82 farewell tour or Loverboy wanting us to do the lights for them and just various production services, we must have had 20 concert halls pay us to build barricades like ours for them for their venues. Our stage and our barricades and the design and they were portable and they were put together and they were bullet proof. You could not bend or break these barricades and so you know, just good stuff like that.
I wondered, I've always wondered, I guess that Journey just didn't get that. It wasn't on their radar, it certainly wasn't a source of pride for them. And in '84 I came to find out that they had had a meeting with Joe Brown with a production sound company in England and offered to sell him Nocturne. And for what they basically hadn't been repaid. They invested two million and they recaptured a million two fifty of it and so they were outstanding, unearned three quarters of a million dollars. Hey, we were only a couple years into it at that point and they're earning back quickly and so the offered to sell it and that's when I said I'll buy it. That's just crazy. I'll buy it for that very same price. It does over 20 million a year you know. What were these guys thinking? Holy shit. Neal stayed in on Nocturne.

Yeah I though he did.
He's the only one that did and all the other guys must just be scratching their asses. What the hell, you know? And that was really Steve Perry that was the influence to say liquidate the investments, liquidate the real estate, liquidate the production company and he must have brushed a hundred million dollars off the table right there. And you know what? These guys should want to beat the livin' shit out of this guy. He cost them so much. He cost them so much. And cost himself so much and I've always said it's almost like he wants revenge and you know the old saying, 'if you want revenge dig two graves'.

Interesting. I guess Steve wouldn't be too happy about the guys re-recording stuff now.
He must have put up a fight to have that stopped. I think he probably did but I think he had to throw in the towel. What can you do? California is what's called a Right to Work state. They've never employed that strategy but it's as good and any you're gonna find. I mean they should have never, ever kowtowed to him in the slightest. I've never understood it but wow he sure carried sway with Journey, with Irving Azoff Management, and with the record company too. Impressive, I tip my hat. And all negative, nothing that would benefit or inure to the benefit of Sony, Columbia, CBS Records, whatever or Journey. As a matter of fact he just cost them money at every turn. So why, what's the attraction you know, what's the attraction here?

Nocturne sounds like a massive company these days. Is that early decision to buy into it paying off?
Nocturne is, we're buying two high definition, major investment right now for Metallica, one of our clients, who's gonna do such a massive stadium tour that we're gonna hopscotch complete productions. Mega-productions and so it's a business where we do a lot of reinvesting and if we want to maintain our market share and continue to be the #1 video company in music then we have to continue to invest but it's something that, the company went through it's first incarnation from '79 through 2001. Then we just kind of folded that down, refinanced and funded a whole new company and we've been doing fantastic, but we have to buy a lot of new technology. The whole advent of high definition basically meant all of our old MTSE standard systems were obsolete.

Ok so Nocturne's a sort of retirement investment.
Yeah, retirement, and not that it's not making money and it makes money, but a lot of the money that it makes is in assets build up and so core value of the company we have taxable assets without any cash so the company funds all of our taxes with increases in equity and gives us money too but it's not like it's making us rich.

And meanwhile Neal's still out there on the road doing what he does best.
Yeah well he, I saw a relationship that started out I think in Denver the first time that Neal Schon and Steve Perry sat down to write a song they wrote Patiently. That's such a great, great song. You go from there to Neal is doing the cocaine, drinking, fuckin' the chicks, doin' all the fuckin' things that Steve couldn't do as a lead singer. And then going out on stage totally hammered and playing perfectly. And then he'd go on a binge for a week, come into the studio hammered, and do all of his guitar parts, in that condition, on the whole album in the next two days and that's it. This guy, you know you take his album like Voices and I don't think Neal spent two whole hours on any track on that record and every single effect, everything you hear comes out that way on his guitar. The engineer has two stereo channels totally flat no EQ and all the effects, everything you here Neal does, on the fly, real time. The dude plays equipment every bit as good as he plays guitar. He's a frickin' genius with it and he just moves right through the whole thing and he'll play a couple bars, get it in his head, 'I got it, let's roll.' And he just rolls and sings the song. I'm telling you nobody can do that.
My dear, departed friend Don Pearson who owned Ultrasound, probably the best sound company in the world, and they invested so much money in this ultimate Meyer sound system, and was on tour with the Grateful Dead for years and years and years until of course Gerry died. And um, then he put that system out with other artists one of which was Andrea Bocelli. And on Neal's record Voice there was two Andrea Bocelli tracks and in front of 300,000 people in Hyde Park in London on that sound system he played those two tracks and Andrea Bocelli was back stage, and this was also a Nocturne tour, and he said 'Who in the fuck is that? He's doing my vocal and every nuance of my vocal.' How can someone do that, you know? Even the singers hear it. You know Bryan Adams toured with us on the whole '83 tour. He heard 'Everything I Do I Do For You' off of that record and said, 'Jesus, that's just fuckin' unbelievable.' Even the singers themselves, they just don't expect somebody to be able to play like that.

Like Neal?
Like Neal yeah, get that feeling, get that phrasing, really get that voice.

Yeah absolutely I agree, I agree.
So just to jump forward to wrapping things up in a minute because you've given me so much of your time and I appreciate that. Years ago could you have imagined Journey with a Filipino lead singer? It's quite amazing.

Well, I think I can see even a sequence of vocalists. I just don't get, now if you had said, I think I would have said the much harder and much more challenging thing. Were you to replace Neal Schon?

I don't think you could.
I'm not saying you couldn't. I betcha I could find someone who emulates him so much, and you know what, it's just like there've been like any number of guitarists that have been right there on the verge of a very credible Jimi Hendrix. And I mean here is one of the most innovative, if you had to single out one frickin' guitarist that created such a special voice in a sea of guitar players I would probably single out Jimi. And now I've seen so many people do such a credible job of emulating him, but the key is being him and originating that voice. Carlos originated that voice, Clapton originated that style, and so now to come along it's, if you didn't invent it, to emulate it is far easier than inventing it. So I think that you could find somebody to mimic Neal Schon. There was a time when I thought that would be far more difficult than finding someone to emulate Steve Perry.

Yeah and there's always Josh Ramos isn't there?
Josh Ramos, yeah there's a problem. (laughter) I mean he's a sweetheart.

So Journey have found this singer - Arnel Pineda - and you know he's got an amazing Perry-like voice and you think that's a good move going back to the Perry sort of sound?
I think, you know I thought even when the Storm performed and they were on the Bryan Adams Waking Up the Neighbors tour, and playing all the arenas and coliseums I would here people in the audience going 'I didn't know Steve Perry joined the Storm' (laughter) or whatever just looking at Kevin Chalfant. Enough of a similarity in resemblance and a great voice and they really can't do an A/B comparison on the spot and determine the disparity or the nuance of difference. And so it's effective. It's very effective and I, you know when I go and see so many bands today I think they're as good or better than ever whether it's the Doobie Brothers or ZZ Top or Lynard Skynard and Lynard Skynard's had all kinds of people coming in and out of the band. Who's left? Maybe Gary Rossington and that's it? I don't know but they still sound pretty credible. It's the music, it's the name.

It's funny you should say that. I won't name names, but somebody suggested to me that it doesn't matter who the singer is. And I just thought for a band with such an iconic singer like Steve Perry that was a really unusual statement to make. Yeah, I would say it's more true than not.

If you can't have the original (who doesn't want to or whatever)…obviously time moves on, then get someone who can.
You're probably one of those devotees who took a long time to arrive at that conclusion and to move on and say you know, I think I can go ahead and accept a substitute.

I was actually one of the biggest champions for Steve Augeri and I thought Jeff Scott Soto was a fantastic idea. Plus he's a friend of mine…
Yeah, I liked Soul Sirkus. I went and saw him at the Filmore, I thought Marco Mendoza was a tremendous musician. I mean the whole band was really tight, very good, Jeff was a great performer. I liked his look, his performance wear, I saw him with Journey he changed his look so much he really, he's changed his look so much. You know it really just changed the vibe. When I saw him in Concord and they were so desperate for me to come and see 'em, then they call and they want my opinion and it's really a mistake because they never really, you know musicians, they really want cheer leaders, they want groupies and they want the fanclub routine and they know better than that with me. I've never been that for them. You know you hear the genuine, the true fan in me when I talk about Neal Schon as a guitarist. But hey you know I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass and I'm gonna give you my honest opinion about a performance. And when I saw them I just thought wow, here's a band that hits the stage and it looks, you know, I wanna see my stars, my heroes descend from Olympus as Gods. Inaccessible, almost unattainable, you know, just out of reach. I wanna love everything about 'em, their wardrobe, their look, their everything and these guys came out in a t-shirt and jeans and they just looked like the monsters from the black lagoon. I mean really just like the roadies, very pedestrian, very pedestrian. Where they were capable of performing at a pretty good level, much better than the headliner that night, Def Leppard, but Leppard came on stage looking like stars and entrance and exit and look and image is hey, hello, it's a big fuckin' deal. You know, it's a big part of it and I think they really shot themselves in the foot that way. Then of course they chose the wrong material. The fact of the matter is that Jeff Scott Soto is not a tenor and so what the fuck? If Steve Augeri was struggling with these songs it's gonna be even harder for Jeff Scott Soto and it was.
And the thing is, the whole time that you were rooting and rooting and rooting for Augeri I knew that there was problems. Not because I was going to shows but because right at the beginning my company shot the Vegas show that was put out on Direct TV. And the original footage of that they insisted, you know, people at my company insisted that I come and watch. And I go, please I wanna come and watch Journey on video, what the fuck? And they said no you have to set and watch this for a minute. I go why, you know, it was like torture. So I sat down and then it was torture. I said what's going on here? I go man he's really, he's missing everything. He struggled so badly that night you can't believe it. There was hardly anything that could be saved in the lead vocal and the problem was to me at that particular time was Neal Schon was grimacing when he would miss these notes. I said man you can fix these notes in a studio but you can't fix the visual on Neal. And I'm like gettin' all sour faced because it's pretty sour. Neal has dog hearing and I said that to him too. I said 'you've got dog hearing I know you can hear that this guy's missing it'. And not necessarily, he doesn't know what's being fed in his earphone monitors and they don't have floor monitors.
So he needed what may have been a crutch in the beginning but became something he was leaning on much more heavily than should have ever happened. So it's just unfortunate and I guess from the vocal in Sweden he wasn't even trying to sing along in key and it was pretty bad. In the house it sounded great but in the recording room at the raw feed, canned feed, and so that was a bust. Ok busted, the party's over, this ruse is up, now you're gonna have to try to get somebody who can really sing so you get Jeff Scott Soto without the benefit of the same crutches and help that Augeri had. He was just quickly and after a few dates in a row he was raw. Those songs will get you. They're very difficult to sing. Playing them in the original voice is like murder on a voice.

One of the hardest catalogs in music without a doubt, I would think.
Yeah I think you're right and so there it is. That's a formula for problems and so finding this kid that can do it au-natural without help that's nice. That should have happened a long time ago.

Do you think Arnel's voice will hold out? He will be under the same road conditions as everyone else before him.
Well like I say it's a very tough thing. The road is grueling on a voice, that's the hardest thing. And if you get sick you get sick. You lose your voice and you've got to power your way through it. There's just nothing you can do about it. It takes X amount of time to recover and man, trying to go through and get through gigs when you have laryngitis is just the worst.

Oh I can imagine it would be awful.
Yeah it's so hard on a singer and just brain damage, traumatizing is what it really is.

I hear Steve's doing better now and I'm really pleased for that.
He had been in a band, I think it was maybe Tall Stories. They opened up for Mr. Big so I knew him well before this gig. He had asked me about, 'Oh Mr. Herbert I'd love to sing in Journey.'

Oh yeah, I heard that from lot's of people.

So he was like putting his hand up back then?
Oh sure and talking to Eric Martin. Ask Eric, he was buddies with Eric. Eric Martin would talk to me about him being a real candidate to do it.

Well he certainly was. Tall Stories are going to do a show in October, a live show in England - a comeback. So I hope he nails it. I hope he does real well.
So he knows you were a big supporter of his and a big fan?

Well yeah, up until the point where the message board chatter overtook everything else. I just try to stand in the middle of all these camps – there are a lot of possibilities for conflict when passionate fans congregate.
Yeah, well I'm totally out of that fight. I got no dog in this fight.

Well I'm glad to hear it but I'm really pleased to hear your thoughts on the new line-up.
You know I have no ill wishes towards those guys. I hope only for the best for them. I really hope this works out well with WalMart. Hey man they've struggled. It should, I cannot help but feel that they squandered and pissed away their place in history, their opportunity at induction into the Hall of Fame, and they seized defeat from the jaws of victory.

Based on not breaking away from Steve Perry earlier?
Yeah, you know I get the idea of 'how can you miss me if I don't go away' you know, but they went away for 15 years. And to live through a couple generations like that and a wholesale change in the way music is bought, sold, distributed, listened to and everything I mean you know it's pretty amazing that they have such depth of popularity. And you know they are definitive evergreen. And a definitive evergreen is an artist that sells far more in death than they did in life. Journey in '86 had sold 22 million records and when they resumed business in '98 they were somewhere around 70 million records. And they hadn't played a song or a show or done an interview or done a video or done a damned thing in 15 years.
And without any benefit of their presence or involvement or any exposure in the media they more than tripled their total lifetime sales. So that's an evergreen for you.
You see artists like Hendrix who really had to die for that to happen and here these guys are still on the planet but it's as if they got shot. I mean you know, they just fell off the face of the earth for so long and they lost all their momentum and their cohesiveness and their ability to maybe go beyond Raised on Radio and have future hits. Obviously, I don't know, did anything click on Trial by Fire? Did they sell any records with that thing? Their live greatest hits was put out because they didn't earn back their advance, I know that. They had to have the live greatest hits to pay money back and the Greatest Hits Live was a live record where the audience had been extracted. That was awful. That was soundly rejected by the consumers. I know that didn't work.

They had a small hit with When You Love a Woman.
When You Love a Woman, that got some airplay?

I got a little bit of airplay yeah.
But we're not talking about a gold album or anything?

I think Trial By Fire did a million copies in the end.
Oh really? I think just.

I think it just scraped over the million line, I'm not sure.
Well that's very good.

That's just from memory. I know Arrival only did about 250 or 300 thousand.
And that was the first one with Augeri?

Yeah, but by that time we had the internet screwing with everything anyway.
Yep, well the digital Pandora's out of the box. Somebody gets one copy of Soul Sirkus and the whole world has it.

Yeah, it's kind of insane isn't it?
It's kinda rough if you're a royalty recipient, intellectual property owner.

It certainly is. Just to get your take on that before we close off, where do we go from here in this digital age? Has the internet screwed everybody or just the major record labels?
I think it's in fact empowered everyone. What was started in an analog, mail order, pick, pack and ship world, artists like Ani DiFranco out of Buffalo now have the access to the digital world. I remember seeing, I think there a Maria Tequila on MySpace that has two million friends. One button she pushes and sends an email to all of them that she's gonna strip naked at Hollywood & Vine at 12 noon tomorrow, be there or be square, and you know two million people have an opportunity, or at least they know about it. They could forward it and you could have a huge crowd at Hollywood & Vine. I mean this is a fantastic tool set that's available and so if Journey's still maintained their active email list and had 600,000 names and growing, there's a business right there. I betcha Ani DiFranco doesn't have 150,000 names and there isn't a label in the business that could pay her enough money to leave her business model. I mean if she sells 150,000 records and netting twelve bucks a unit that's, what I have to sell on a conventional deal to make that kind of yield? And I have a direct relationship with my fans who are highly engaged. This is a fantastic concept and this is why American Idol is really brilliant. Because these simple concepts are not tough to get your mind around have been out of reach by most managers and most artists for so long, but it's about engaging. So when they go through these early trials of American Idol, and I don't even watch this fuckin' thing, but they have all the bogus performances and they kind of ferret out the good performers and then at a certain date that they have it distilled down to 24 or 12 or whatever they start inviting people to vote on your favorites. But they try to get you early so it's probably when it's down to 24. Then you get engaged and the minute you pick up the phone, not only you're making them money, but you're actively engaged with that artist and you're gonna stick with 'em and I don't care if it's Rueben Studdard or Clay Aiken or whoever, Kelly Clarkson. You're gonna go all the way, you're gonna keep voting and when she puts a record out you're gonna be at least one of the first three million to buy it. And their winners and their runners up and sometime people who get tossed out with five weeks to go are going multiple platinum. Jennifer Hudson left well before the finals and picked a Golden Globe, an Oscar, a Grammy and a platinum record.

Unheard of, unthought-of of isn't it?
Yeah and she goes from nowhere, from nobody, she couldn't sell out a phone booth, to all of a sudden, triple platinum, Golden Globe, Grammy, Oscar.

Amazing, it's really only the record labels that are getting screwed – and some of the cool indie retailers out there. It's sad to see that happen. Some of the major labels needed a reality check though.
They were charging way too much. If they had the Eagles double album I'd be $19.99. It wouldn't be $11.99. The motion picture business was selling multi-layered DVDs with letterbox and analog versions and director's cuts and talk-alongs and picture galleries and so much stuff for $14. You want a rare CD, $18. How long was that gonna last? These guys were idiots they got what they deserved. And you know Madison Avenue says if we take something like Hartz Mountain bird feed and we take it and do our typical advertising mix of media, print, radio, TV and so forth and we sell under a hundred million units we get fired. The record business sells 10 million units when we have research that shows there 300 million music systems in America, pre-MP3 and Ipod type players, there were 350 million before that, and you sell 10 million and you celebrate like you've changed the world? You know and it's just crazy lack of penetration into the market place and it's just a laughing stock. Nobody ever even bought media mixes. Nobody sold enough to justify a normal media buy. So it was just terrible.
The business has always been ripe for pickin' and somebody finally started pickin'. And it's really excellent for Journey to have this Walmart opportunity. This is the first chance they've really had I think to pull themselves out of the dark ages. Because in the old model what they did, if they did do those things even with Trial by Fire and Arrival, it just didn't have the feel or the presence of records that sold a million or 350. Boy, I can't feel it, is it in yet? There's just no presence to me. And there certainly wasn't any surge in their business and concerts. But do you know, I believe that Steve Augeri performed substantially more concerts with Journey than Steve Perry did.

Oh absolutely and he was actually in the band longer. What a phenomenal concept that was!
Yeah, there you go and so what's the liability of replacing singers? Well there's your answer. You know, and so if you had a really excellent one, if he really had, let's say this kid's voice, he [Augeri] certainly had a great look and you know he was good. He moved much better and was much more genuine. People don't realize that Steve Perry wouldn't even look at an audience.

Oh really, never eye contact, no way.

Well Steve remains a a very private individual to this day I guess.
Yeah, he sure does. That's fine with me, who cares? I guess you have contact on your board with people who would love to hear from him?

Oh of course they would, yeah.
They'd love to find out what's making him tick, what he's thinking.
You know, a voice is something, if you don't use it you lose it.
You know what, I tell ya, there's a lot of rumor about they're gonna build some palace for Michael Jackson in Vegas, I think he might have the same problem Steve Perry has.

Why, because he hasn't sung?
He hasn't sung since the '80s. And you know, it just goes away. It's a muscle, it's something that has to be exercised and trained and to get to that level of conditioning its hard work. And you know I think Steve Perry's really tried. When he had a solo career and his solo tour he tried to do it. I've heard that he's gone to the greatest vocal teachers and got the best help that you can get and it's just not there anymore.

So what can you do about it?
There's nothing you can do. So any other questions, I'm getting' tired?

Hey look, you and me both. Like I said I could talk to you for a week but today that's more than enough and I really do thank you for your time.
You know I just had my 60th birthday.

Did you really?
Yeah and I've got this big party I'm throwing up here on the coast.

Oh that's right Kevin said he was coming along to it.
Yeah, and Neal's gonna come and play and sing and all that.
I think it's time to get behind this new line-up and give this guy a shot and I think they're moving in the right direction.

I'm really glad we can speak really positively about Neal during interview because he doesn't get enough of that.
He doesn't man. Something has really gone wrong there and I feel bad that these guys, I mean they threw their own thing under the bus. Their own opportunity at greatness their own place in history, to have bands like Van Halen inducted into the Hall of Fame that were their own $500 a night opening act has got to fuckin' effect them. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Van Halen and Eddie but in songs and content and whatever they're no Journey. So Journey has been slighted totally and the East Coast bias of the Hall of Fame when you have bands in there like Velvet Underground I think credibility is beginning to get strained.

And Madonna, give me a break.
Yeah exactly, Madonna oh my God, now there's a lady…
It's been great talking to you Andrew.

I really, really appreciate your time Herbie. Thank you sir.
Alright, you have a good night.

You too, thanks very much.

c. 2008 / Interview by Andrew McNeice March 2008 / Transcribed by Sherrie and
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