I agree!! I got WITHOUT LOVE as well. I absolutley love it!! It was a shock when i saw that it was with the lead singer from TOUR DE FORCE! It is nothing like TOUR DE FORCE, But very cool to say the least! Anyone know how this band falls into things with TOUR DE FORCE? Did he do it before after or during TOUR DE FORCE, or was this a onetime project in between albums? Also, I dug the RAQUEL CD as well. Only thing that confused me though about your post, i thought SHANG HAI was on KIVEL ? Anyway, keep it up MM!!