O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity? Funny but I wanted to post about it this morning, but on a more serious note than the funny thread here below. My views on religion are well-known. This said, I still consider the election of a new Pope as an important event. To be honest, I had hopes that the Vatican would seize this opportunity to enter the 21st Century, dust off its Middle-Age theories and beliefs, or at least open doors wide open to discuss some of them and update them. Unfortunately, what we have is another old man with a partially dark past. I hear he seems pretty popular and a decent man overall though. THis said, does the Church really expect the erosion of faith to slow down when it elects a man who at 76 is very unlikely to reform anything in a significant manner? When will the Church wake up and give a chance to someone aged 55-60? Until then, I do not think that the decline that started many decades ago is likely to be reversed. Which is a shame to me, as I think it would be very beneficial for the whole world to have a catholic church in tune with its time (or any religious institution for that matter). I think we will have to wait for another long many years until this happen. The world moves forward but the religious institutions are still 200 years behind. Another big missed opportunity in my humble opinion. What do you think? BTW, this thread is not meant to fuel anti-religious feeling, or fanatic pro-religious ones either. I just am interested to see how we view this important event. Again as a non-Believer, I still think that this is an historical and important event that need to be discussed, as it can potentially influence the march of the world.http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934153#msg-934153Sun, 19 May 2013 16:20:40 +1000 Phorum 5.2.16 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934649#msg-934649 Re: amazed we still have religionhttp://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934649#msg-934649
PS: take that title of the Thunder tune to heart,nutman. you wanna be 'Laughing...On Judgement Day'. ;-)]]> Terry K. NoticeboardMon, 18 Mar 2013 06:38:46 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934534#msg-934534 Re: amazed we still have religionhttp://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934534#msg-934534Does that mean ours is the right one?

Don't make me laugh.]]> rocknut NoticeboardSun, 17 Mar 2013 04:59:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934482#msg-934482 Re: amazed we still have religionhttp://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934482#msg-934482
That and all of creation (or random existence as we'll have to call it) have without any 'control' appeared under the same circumstances.

Love, Morals, instinct and all other things we can't see, are just random things that appeared all by themselves. I find that harder to believe than there being a divine creator behind it.

If you believe the bible then there is only one God and only one route to him and yes, Religion has in a big way become very self-obsessed but that isn't necessarily God's fault. We were obsessed with our temples and ceremonies 2000 years ago and we're still doing it now.]]> NIK WILSON NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 22:36:05 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934391#msg-934391 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934391#msg-934391
That, to me, means that there is knowledge of that harsh condemnation. If that's so, I'd like to know what it was/is.]]> rocknut NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 01:48:55 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934383#msg-934383 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934383#msg-934383 Terry K. NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 01:14:06 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934382#msg-934382 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934382#msg-934382 Terry K. NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 01:01:07 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934379#msg-934379 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934379#msg-934379With regard to religion I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. There's a big difference in the mindset. Basically I have an open mind, but I'm sceptical.

As I referred to in my last post, possibly a little too vaguely, it's something that is within me from school. It's my generation's 'default position' if you like.

I can't unlearn what I was taught at school.]]> rocknut NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 00:53:06 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934376#msg-934376 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934376#msg-934376
What I don't understand though, is that you have prayed is your darkest times, while you clearly don't believe in God. If you are so certain that there is no God, why would you ever want to pray to him? Only praying when you are in need, while in better times proclaiming that there is no God, makes you a hypocrite IMO.]]> juliocruz NoticeboardSat, 16 Mar 2013 00:43:54 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934361#msg-934361 Re: Hypocrisy? No, and here's why....http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934361#msg-934361
Now, as for the hypocrisy with regard to praying in times of crisis I'd have to disagree. From the age of 5 until I attended secondary school [roughly 8 years here in the UK] I was taught 'Religious Education'. I didn't 'ask to learn', I was forcibly taught. No harm done in the grand scheme of things, I grant you.

But - I was also taught Geography, Mathematics, English, Cookery. You get the picture, I got a broad education, as everyone here did, I hope. Now, when I need to work out what change I might expect from buying something I can work it out in my head. When I see a county's flag I instinctively know where it is from. I know how to spell, and compose grammar correctly.

My point is, that it is automatic behaviour. It is learned, indoctrinated and almost an unconscious act. With that in mind I have prayed at some of my darkest times - and I've had some dark, dark days believe me. I still know The Lord's Prayer by heart.

My wife's mother very recently passed away and I attended the service in her church. I sang hymns and I prayed when I was asked to. That was entirely out of respect for my wife's mother [and father when he died last year] because they were believers and church goers. Rachel's father had a Bible that he read daily and had made notes in and marked his favourite passages. It is a wonderful keepsake and very moving.....even for me.

In the strictest sense of the word I am a hypocrite. But there are hypocrites and then there are hypocrites.

Does any of that make sense? I hope I have explained it well enough.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 23:52:09 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934351#msg-934351 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934351#msg-934351
With regard to the Pope, I'm hoping for reforms too and this new Pope made a good first impression on me. If that will lead to any real reforms, time will tell. Regardless, the Pope is a very powerful symbol for a lot of people, so I don't see why some people here feel they need to make fun of him.]]> juliocruz NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 23:04:02 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934339#msg-934339 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934339#msg-934339 rocknut NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 22:10:57 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934337#msg-934337 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934337#msg-934337For someone to be anti god they would first have to believe in god.
It is possible to be anti religious but that's a different thing altogether.]]> MetroGnome NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 21:41:55 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934323#msg-934323 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934323#msg-934323 Troy NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 19:45:21 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934319#msg-934319 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934319#msg-934319
Quote
Purple
Failure to lead wisely, inaction among believers in the face of evil, misusing God's word, etc., has always brought the harshest condemnations from the Lord.

I'm curious. What harsh condemnations have their been from God for the men responsible for the sexual abuse of children within the Catholic church? The same church that covered up the abuse, protected those responsible and continues to do so. What divine retribution has their been for such depraved abberations?]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 19:36:47 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934318#msg-934318 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934318#msg-934318
The moral indignation is what annoys me the most. The perception that if you don't believe in a God that you're of a lower caste, to be pitied and patronised.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 19:32:11 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934316#msg-934316 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934316#msg-934316 Troy NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 19:04:44 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934300#msg-934300 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934300#msg-934300 Purple NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 14:40:29 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934299#msg-934299 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934299#msg-934299
By definition any non-believer like me who is agnostic is not implying that the opposing view is 100% wrong and so I think you missed my point.

Probably the wrong place as you say and I really don't enjoy debating/discussing religion as too many people take it far too personally when an opposing view is presented.]]> the ORIGINAL brent NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 13:44:46 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934297#msg-934297 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934297#msg-934297 Terry K. NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 13:18:42 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934295#msg-934295 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934295#msg-934295
My point is that the Catholic Church, while they speak out against divorce, pornography, homosexuality, etc., often live their lives in opposition to these teachings. Hypocrites, who have conformed to the world.]]> Purple NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 13:03:47 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934293#msg-934293 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934293#msg-934293
By definition any world view is exclusionary - even a worldview that is supposedly inclusionary. Where there is a certain truth claimed (even if it's a claim there is no truth) it excludes non-truth (or claims of truth).

Perhaps that's not what you meant by that, and I mean no offence by my post, but I see such comments all the time, as if to suggest a more reasonable/moderate view on God, creation, morality, etc. Far from it.

If you meant "Hey, let's just not talk about such things" - yeah this forum probably isn't the best place for that.]]> Purple NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 12:54:15 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934292#msg-934292 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934292#msg-934292 backwhereubelong NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 12:46:13 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934285#msg-934285 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934285#msg-934285 Terry K. NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 12:17:39 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934282#msg-934282 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934282#msg-934282
I think trying to force your views on others (both sides) and harming others in the name of your God (or lack thereof)is where the line is crossed.

Views like Steve's that "if it works for you, then fine" are a good example of where I stand on it. That's not said in a derogatory way either........I don't get it and view it as a bit of a security blanket (and I was brought up in a Christian family) but I'm not going to say "you're wrong". I have too much respect for the intellect of some people who are devoutly religious.

The dreaded "R word" always stirs things up LOL]]> the ORIGINAL brent NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 11:53:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934278#msg-934278 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934278#msg-934278 Troy NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 11:09:37 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934254#msg-934254 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934254#msg-934254Pope Francis, who was born in Buenos Aires and is the first pontiff from Latin America, once told a congregation to "Go and kiss this land which is ours, and seem to us far away" when referring to the Falklands, it is reported today.

oh shut up, you UGLY OLD TWAT !]]> Braddy NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 09:15:44 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934253#msg-934253 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934253#msg-934253 Terry K. NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 09:12:22 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934249#msg-934249 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934249#msg-934249 backwhereubelong NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 08:48:31 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934244#msg-934244 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934244#msg-934244
Your casual dismissal of sexual sin as something that doesn't 'conform to popular sentiment' (apologies for the paraphrasing) is really troubling me. It's not just some trivial aberration - it's sustained, institutionalised paedophilia on a grand scale over centuries.

I just cannot fathom how something like that can be viewed as discrepancy.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 08:21:38 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934225#msg-934225 Re: O/T: Pope Francis I - another missed opportunity?http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,934153,934225#msg-934225
Church has become about a pep talk, looking pretty, putting in some money to keep the lights on, and living your life just as everyone else. Why on Earth would people get up on Sunday morning for that?

Until the Church actually lives out the gospel of Christ it will continue a slow death. The great thing? People coming from dead churches/catholics are still seeking Truth. When they (finally) find a church that lives out their faith, lives are being radically transformed - I see it everyday.]]> Purple NoticeboardFri, 15 Mar 2013 06:27:46 +1100