Hello, I don't usually post here, or anywhere for that matter. But this one really brought the beast out of the den, so to speak. First of all, hats of to the guys in W.E.T. for being the creative, and excellent musicians that you are! Really, good job there! When that is said, it is with a heavy heart, that I write this. It really hurts... but your latest cd, along with the debut, are HORRIBLE examples of how to present the fans and general public with your music. I KNOW that when you guys plan and record a new album, you want the people that hear it, to like it, right? ofcourse. No one will argue with that. But why is it then, that you don't fight tooth and nail when it comes to the actual product? WHY? Might aswell spill acid in our eyes... seriously. The problem I want to get at is the mastering of the album. It is some of the ugliest stuff I have heard and seen in recent times, made worse by the fact, that I KNOW there is beautiful music underneath it all. We are ofcourse talking about the loudness. "Rise Up" is a mess. 95% or more of the time, everything is going at max levels, making it impossible to enjoy listening from one end of the album to the next. Most likely you will avoid those comments because the general public that will hear the album, has grown accustomed to the loudness that is present in todays music, and therefore will not complain about it. But that dose not mean that it is not there. I noticed it right away, and have been looking at the waveforms for each track, the two ballads have the best mastering but still being way out of line most of the time. It is so sad that good music like the stuff you wrote and recorded for Rise Up, has to be put trough this process. Why did you not request it to be proberly mastered? Don't let yourselves be slaves to the loudness war. For those that have no idea what I am talking about. Here is a short video explaining what is wrong with the majority mastering today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcKDMBuGodU In short: Rise Up sounds utterly horrible all because of the terrible mastering that it went trough, and it has ruined much of the good music that should have been on it. I have just about had enough of todays music, be it Rihanna or W.E.T. or what have you. Now take an album like Dire Straits - Love Over Gold, original release. THAT is proper! Its so sad that such a small scene like melodic/hard rock is constantly having crap releases like this, when what this music really needs is for it to sound good. If you guys at W.E.T. ever read this, then do something about it next time! I am not buying any more cd's from you, if you wont master them properly.http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932730#msg-932730Mon, 20 May 2013 01:04:26 +1000 Phorum 5.2.16 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933315#msg-933315 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933315#msg-933315 OzzMosiz NoticeboardSat, 09 Mar 2013 01:06:53 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933068#msg-933068 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933068#msg-933068
Its so sad, that "Coup De Grace" by Treat and "Address The Nation" by HEAT for example, are brickwalled to hell and back, I cry when I think about what they could have been...

But you get your mission across Vic. I like your attitude, don't expect anyone else to do it first. Like Gandhi said "We most become the change, that we want to see in the world"]]> Hammerhans NoticeboardThu, 07 Mar 2013 13:30:55 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933020#msg-933020 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,933020#msg-933020
I used to have a primo system in my last car (installed everything myself - crossovers, component speakers, the works) and used it wisely. Yeah, it thumped - but the crossovers were set properly, the sub level was immense but properly so, it was really something. A singer I used to work with, upon hearing it for the first time, declared it the best car audio system he had heard, at least to that point...

But I digress from the main point of this thread. Yeah, everything is TOO FREAKING LOUD, there is no sense of dynamics in anything anymore, a whisper is equally intense as a scream and it really does nothing but kill good music - ANY music, actually.

I promise you this - I will make it my mission to NOT have the new Adriangale release compressed/limited to the point of the squashing the life out of the signal just for the sake of competing in the loudness wars. I have a great relationship with my mastering engineer and he'll be put on notice once I deliver the mix - make it loud, but still musical!]]> Vic Rivera NoticeboardThu, 07 Mar 2013 04:12:18 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932918#msg-932918 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932918#msg-932918 cookie NoticeboardWed, 06 Mar 2013 10:52:48 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932875#msg-932875 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932875#msg-932875 backwhereubelong NoticeboardWed, 06 Mar 2013 04:08:55 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932874#msg-932874 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932874#msg-932874 backwhereubelong NoticeboardWed, 06 Mar 2013 04:06:01 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932862#msg-932862 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932862#msg-932862 kaneudeck NoticeboardWed, 06 Mar 2013 01:41:31 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932821#msg-932821 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932821#msg-932821
My theory on that is, everyone is listening to music through stinking earbuds nowadays and it has to be mastered loud to get any fidelity out of a speaker the size of a knats ass. Those of us who listen to it on a normal stereo can hear it as mastered to loud.

NOw throw in those idiots who drive by you with their subwoofers flapping and pounding it's no wonder music sounds like shit. I have a subwoofer in my CRZ, but i use it to enhance not to be the main friggin sound coming out of my music.]]> Scott Watson NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 21:02:03 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932816#msg-932816 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932816#msg-932816 gary191265 NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 20:20:01 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932811#msg-932811 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932811#msg-932811
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUcgg2vMX_s]]> Signal Fan NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 19:53:44 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932797#msg-932797 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932797#msg-932797
But really if it turns out bad too, I wont be surprised (Those people in charge of the vinyl release, that W.E.T or Frontiers are cooperating with "INNER WOUND", don't have a clue of what they are doing)

Because I got the debut on vinyl, and that one failed on multiple levels, not only was the master not good, it was on a bloody PICTURE disc vinyl!!! and that brings even more problems into the mix...

The thing with picture vinyls compared to regular black once, is that to get the picture on the vinyl itself, there needs to be printed a picture on it (obviously). This means a layer of paint on TOP of the vinyl.

Think of it as a thin sheet of paper over a backlit city map on the train station or somewhere. The paper would make it harder to see the actual streets. Same with the vinyl, the paint makes it harder for the stylus to pick up the actual groove formations in the vinyl, giving the sound a VERY annoying constant background noice. Sort of like a deep boom "buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggghhhh" So everytime the already horrible master gives the songs a little air, the background noice takes completely over. I dont need to tell you that, that record was on my turntable ONCE, and never again!

So I dont exacly have faith in those chumps that print the LPs for W.E.T. :/ But I am willing to give them one more chance, as I dont have any of their other LP releases besides the debut, and this one will be in standard black vinyl atleast. If that is because I wrote several messages on the W.E.T. page on facebook regarding the picture disc, I dont know. But its a step in the right direction.

Lets hope that, if not for the iTunes and CD versions, there might just be some hope in the LP edition. We wont know til it arrives.

Glad to see, I aint the only listener that is bothered by the mastering. I was not expecting folks to even reply to me. But perhaps you guys have been talking about the issue before. Atleast the admin of this site, Andrew, updated his scoring for album reviews some time ago.

There used to be a trend that every well played and written album that was otherwise good and had good songs, got almost equally good "sound" score. Which often made me think twice about, if this guy knew anything about the actual sound. If he was listening and reviewing on a laptop or some ipod headphones I could not really blame him for that. People always talk about high def when it comes to TV and movies, and 7.1 lossless surround in DTS. And demand quite a lot at times. People also know reasonably well about TV technology.

But I wish people would be more aware and demanding when it came to the most used entertainment media, music. I think people demand too little, when it comes to good sound.

I dont know how to fix the whole problem with too much loudness, but making people aware of the problem, and putting some pressure on record companies might be a way, aswell as making bands put additional pressure on and making them demand that their records be properly mastered, could be some steps to take, in overcoming the problem.

I live in a country where we dont have any big music labels, and demands are not the same as in say, the U.S, so most of the music that is made here is reasonably well mastered. But I would say that, someone like Andrew is in a good position to get in touch with bands in our beloved music scene here, and could get the message across, that this is a serious problem with the music they are releasing.]]> Hammerhans NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 16:20:45 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932788#msg-932788 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932788#msg-932788
What he said.]]> RAMSAY NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 12:10:26 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932776#msg-932776 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932776#msg-932776 Snake65 NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 11:01:52 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932774#msg-932774 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932774#msg-932774
> ZZ Top's latest was pretty painful at high volumes
> too. The producer? Rick Rubin. Again.

What's the producer got to do with mastering ? Producers don't do mastering...I doubt everything was louder than everything else at the recording stage before all the dynamics and life were squeezed out if it. Producers for the most part don't even engineer the records !

Why do you think the likes of Steve Hoffman and Steven Wilson have such lucrative jobs these days...the stuff they worked on was produced and engineered fine to begin with.]]> gary191265 NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 10:54:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932754#msg-932754 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932754#msg-932754 adolfo NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 09:42:12 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932750#msg-932750 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932750#msg-932750 RAMSAY NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 09:10:32 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932748#msg-932748 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932748#msg-932748

http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,843202,843256#msg-843256

http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,304555,304555#msg-304555

http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,241454,241454#msg-241454


It's not just W.E.T., it's just about every f-ing album coming out nowadays. Highly annoying, to say the least. For example, the latest Whitesnake releases are a pain to listen to at high volume for more than 10 minutes.


// Figge]]> Figge NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 09:03:25 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932747#msg-932747 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932747#msg-932747 backwhereubelong NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 08:42:52 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932745#msg-932745 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932745#msg-932745I was expecting more from this release and whilst it's still a keeper, it could have been so much better.]]> Carl1 NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 08:38:25 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932742#msg-932742 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932742#msg-932742
The loudness war is very fatiguing on your ears and can cause headaches after extended exposure to it. I miss being able to listen to (properly mastered) vinyl/cassettes/CD's for hours on end ... now after half a CD
my ears are fried.

I don't not fall for all those "remastered" releases as it has killed some of the best songs ever written & recorded.]]> backwhereubelong NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 08:23:22 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932734#msg-932734 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932734#msg-932734 Walk In The Shadows NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 07:43:28 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932732#msg-932732 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932732#msg-932732 Hammerhans NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 07:36:01 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932730#msg-932730 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,932730,932730#msg-932730
First of all, hats of to the guys in W.E.T. for being the creative, and excellent musicians that you are! Really, good job there!

When that is said, it is with a heavy heart, that I write this. It really hurts... but your latest cd, along with the debut, are HORRIBLE examples of how to present the fans and general public with your music.

I KNOW that when you guys plan and record a new album, you want the people that hear it, to like it, right? ofcourse. No one will argue with that.

But why is it then, that you don't fight tooth and nail when it comes to the actual product? WHY? Might aswell spill acid in our eyes... seriously.

The problem I want to get at is the mastering of the album. It is some of the ugliest stuff I have heard and seen in recent times, made worse by the fact, that I KNOW there is beautiful music underneath it all.

We are ofcourse talking about the loudness. "Rise Up" is a mess. 95% or more of the time, everything is going at max levels, making it impossible to enjoy listening from one end of the album to the next. Most likely you will avoid those comments because the general public that will hear the album, has grown accustomed to the loudness that is present in todays music, and therefore will not complain about it. But that dose not mean that it is not there.

I noticed it right away, and have been looking at the waveforms for each track, the two ballads have the best mastering but still being way out of line most of the time. It is so sad that good music like the stuff you wrote and recorded for Rise Up, has to be put trough this process. Why did you not request it to be proberly mastered? Don't let yourselves be slaves to the loudness war.

For those that have no idea what I am talking about. Here is a short video explaining what is wrong with the majority mastering today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcKDMBuGodU

In short: Rise Up sounds utterly horrible all because of the terrible mastering that it went trough, and it has ruined much of the good music that should have been on it.

I have just about had enough of todays music, be it Rihanna or W.E.T. or what have you. Now take an album like Dire Straits - Love Over Gold, original release. THAT is proper! Its so sad that such a small scene like melodic/hard rock is constantly having crap releases like this, when what this music really needs is for it to sound good. If you guys at W.E.T. ever read this, then do something about it next time! I am not buying any more cd's from you, if you wont master them properly.]]> Hammerhans NoticeboardTue, 05 Mar 2013 07:27:17 +1100