http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/great-white-jack-russell-station-fire-trashed-my-life/http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931176#msg-931176Sat, 25 May 2013 12:20:28 +1000 Phorum 5.2.16 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931625#msg-931625 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931625#msg-931625 Laurent NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 19:59:51 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931591#msg-931591 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931591#msg-931591 McMack NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 10:02:02 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931549#msg-931549 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931549#msg-931549
Absolutely. I think it would be wonderful if they came out and admitted that they should have stayed in Rhode Island for a while.]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 07:07:33 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931545#msg-931545 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931545#msg-931545
Hindsight is always 20-20. You have respect for The Who for stating what they should have done years ago, but would you have the same respect if Great White came out and said the very same words today?

Debbie]]> RockerChic NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 06:58:31 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931544#msg-931544 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931544#msg-931544 Troy NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 06:45:02 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931542#msg-931542 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931542#msg-931542
It's like Pete Townshend said - The Who should have stayed in Cinncinnati and attended to the families.

How can you or anybody else here argue with a man that went through something similar to what Great White went through? In my opinion, his opinion is the only one that counts unless one of the guys from Great White would like to join in on this conversation.]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 06:13:53 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931539#msg-931539 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931539#msg-931539They were damned if they do, damned if they don't...
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 05:48:50 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931535#msg-931535 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931535#msg-931535
It doesn't mean Jack was/is wrong, just that you disagree.

BUT - regardless of that, Jack doesn't need to apologise (going back to the initial post/thread title.

Legally Jack and the band did nothing wrong. Morally is a personal issue that doesn't have anything to do with the initial thread.]]> rocknut NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 05:03:54 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931534#msg-931534 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931534#msg-931534 Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 04:58:55 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931528#msg-931528 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931528#msg-931528
It puzzles me why you are so intent on vilifying the man, but I don't care enough to get into THAT shit pile :)]]> rocknut NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 04:45:41 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931527#msg-931527 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931527#msg-931527
I do appreciate your taking the time to post some of Jack's statements about the fire though. That was very informative and I wished this had been posted when the thread first started.


I don't know if you saw my post with Pete Townshend's comments years later about how he and his band acted after the 11 people were trampled at their concert in Cinncinnati. You and I and the rest of the people on this board have never been in a position like Jack and Pete were. So we can speculate all day long about what woulda, coulda, shoulda, happened but Pete's words of remorse about the way he handled it trumps anything you and I are saying. This man's words are the only important comments in this entire thread because he is the only one that lived it. I bolded some of the lines that I really want to sink in.You need to realize that you guys are saying the exact same type of things that Pete Townshends "advisors" were telling him at the time.


TOWNSHEND: I was drinking so hard at the time I wasn't conscious of what I was saying. And I said some dumb things. I said some things that hurt the victims' families. I remember saying, "It seems that everybody wants us to shed the theatrical tear and to say 'sorry.' Whereas what we have to do is go on. "The fact is that we didn't have to go on. We could have stopped, and I think we should have stopped. We should have stopped the tour.

PLAYBOY: Why didn't you?

TOWNSHEND: I don't quite know why we didn't. I suppose we didn't, to put it bluntly, because there was too much money at stake. It would have been a big legal mess to cancel tour dates, but we should have. It's obvious that we should have stopped. The idea that "We're going to Buffalo and we're doing this for those kids" was rubbish. The kids were gone. We then should have attended to the families. We should have stayed in Cincinnati. It looked as if we had gone in like commandos, created this havoc, then fucked off to do the same things somewhere else. Our advisors, our lawyers and everybody else were just completely wrong, inhuman and stupid. Everybody was stupid--the record company, the manager, my lawyer, the fans-- they were all stupid, completely stupid. Never, ever have I come across a chunk of humanity as stupid as the people with whom I interrelated. As I sat on top of all those stupid people as Mr. King Stupid. I mean, we had to go on for rock and roll? What shit! It's like Wayne's World, "Rock and roll!" That's what we did after Cincinnati. "Rock and roll!" Eleven kids dead, but what the fuck?]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 04:29:22 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931525#msg-931525 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931525#msg-931525
But as I stated before, none of them showed common sense.


There are certainly much bigger fish to fry than Jack and those people did get fried.

My bigger beef about this is that they didn't hang around to help with the aftermath.]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 04:07:27 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931524#msg-931524 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931524#msg-931524
It's about compassion and love for others, and caring.

It's not about COVERING YOUR ASS, lawyers advice, and the fear of being in an uncomfortable situation. Pete knows that now. He knows he did the wrong thing by leaving.]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 04:02:57 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931523#msg-931523 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931523#msg-931523
I will stick to what I said in my first post. I don't claim to know all the facts. I just know that I would have done things much differently than Jack and the other Great White members did if 100 of my fans lost their lives while watching my band perform. Christian Bale would have also done things differently.]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 03:59:49 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931517#msg-931517 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931517#msg-931517
You keep using the word "apologize", yet everyone keeps pointing out that Jack should NOT have to apologize. Perhaps the definition of the word needs to be clearly defined for you:

a·pol·o·gize
[uh-pol-uh-jahyz]
verb (used without object), a·pol·o·gized, a·pol·o·giz·ing.
1. to offer an apology or excuse for some fault, insult, failure, or injury: He apologized for accusing her falsely.
2. to make a formal defense in speech or writing.

To further elaborate, here is the word's origin:

Word Origin & History

apologize
1590s, "to speak in defense of," from Gk. apologeisthai (see apology). Main modern sense "to regretfully acknowledge" is attested by 1725. The Gk. equivalent, apologizesthai, meant simply "to give an account."


Here are a few of the things that Jack has said:

“I'd love to say I'm sorry. It is obviously a very tragic and unfortunate incident. This is not what music is supposed to be about. After 25 years of being in show business, nothing like this has ever happened. What do you say? Gee, I'm sorry. That doesn't cut it. There are no words that can possibly express the way I feel right now. I'm devastated.”

"It's been almost 10 years and no matter what I say it's never going to make anybody feel any better about it, and sometimes it might make them feel worse, so I really would rather not say too much, you know,"

"After The Station, I was really down, was taking anything I could take," he said. "I would just sit for hours and cry."

"I can't imagine how people feel who lost like their wife, lost their son, lost their daughter, lost their husband or whatever, I can't imagine the depth of their pain." But he said people should realize that the fire haunts him, too. "This was a life-changing event for everyone," he said. "It's not like something I forget about."

“My heart aches for all the families and friends of the victims whose lives will forever be changed by this terrible tragedy. I too lost many friends that night, but I can’t begin to equate that to the loss of a family member. For what it’s worth, you have been in my prayers and always will be.”

Captain Can Main wrote:

The apology could even be worded so as not to imply guilt.

"I am so sorry for your loss that night." "It was the worst night of
my life and I would do anything to change it."

I really don't think that the few quotes above are much different than what you are proposing that Jack should have said. :-\ It just seems to me that you want the man to attone for something, anything, to almost beg to be punished for it all. Sure, he hasn't made the best choices in life, and he may not exactly be a model citizen (Hell, let's be honest, many musicians aren't), but that doesn't mean that he hasn't replayed the entire night over and over in his head, wondering if there was some sign, some moment that he missed where he could have acted on and erased the whole nightmare away.

Are the above quotes not enough personal grief and anguish for you, CCM? And, as for the victims claiming that "we just want to hear him say that he is sorry"... Is that truly all that they want from Russell? Surely the above sentiment would equally suffice.

I truly believe that if he were to apologize about this, it would open him up to a flood of civil suits. I don't doubt for a minute that the lawyers advised the band and Jack that they need to choose their words very carefully. The band already paid out $1 million (which was covered by their insurance) due to this tragedy. This is NOT the 80s anymore... GW and Jack simply cannot afford more than that, nor can they afford to spend months donating their time (which is what you think they should have done; I haven't read anywhere that this is what the victims & their families expected), while putting their business on hold. Make no mistake, this is their BUSINESS and their LIVELIHOOD and they all have their own families to support. I know that I certainly couldn't afford to do that, no matter how terrible I felt about someone else's suffering.

You keep referring to Christian Bale in this whole thread. In my eyes, there is only one difference between the 2 situations: Christian was NOT in that theater the night of that massacre! He had nothing to lose and everything to gain by placing himself front and center to the whole incident and he could probably buy and sell every single band and crew member of Great White (past & present!) many, many times over, so he could easily afford to devote the time. PR and image are a main selling point for an actor. The last time he was headline news, it wasn't painting a very pretty picture of Bale... Quite the contrary: an egotistical, beligerant, & violent diva (have you forgotten about the time he was caught screaming, cursing, & throwing things during a tantrum?)! Do not think for a second that his actions weren't in the slight bit self serving. All actors know that if the public (their 'audience') loves you, they will always be drawn to your work, thus adding to your marketability and your continued success. An actor's public image, looks, and relatability is as important, sometimes more so, as their acting ability.

And, here is a very different perspective of it all, written by a fan who saw their show 2 nights prior: Open Letter To Jack Russell. Perhaps this is the most important positive thing to come out of this horror: Businesses are now being forced to comply to much improved safety laws. Had The Station even complied with the laws in place at the time, the outcome could have been drastically different.

Debbie

P.S. Yeah, I editted this many times. I'm a self-imposed spelling/grammar nazi, who had time to have another cup (or 2) of coffee by the time I finished writing all of this and I keep finding mistakes... So, what? LOL!]]> RockerChic NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 02:53:15 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931510#msg-931510 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931510#msg-931510And I still think your comments were/are idiotic, hence the use of the word "idiot". It's not name calling, it's an exasperated expression.
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 02:23:50 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931507#msg-931507 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931507#msg-931507Without any facts, without any ties to what happened you have done nothing but vilify Jack Russell.
For what reason? How compassionate is that of you?
You have lengthened a thread with your bile spewing aimed square at Jack Russell, instead of thinking about the people affected by the Station Fire... how compassionate is that of you?
You looked for 15 minutes on the internet to see if you could find some more details for your pathetic little argument, while Jack and these families and musicians have lived with it for 10 years now, how compassionate is that of you?
What exactly is the real point of your grudge against Jack Russell?
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardSat, 23 Feb 2013 01:57:56 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931455#msg-931455 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931455#msg-931455 rocknut NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 18:45:44 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931446#msg-931446 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931446#msg-931446 Captain Can Man NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 13:01:37 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931443#msg-931443 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931443#msg-931443
If you go back and read my very first post about this, you will see that it was pretty darn harmless...]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 12:28:26 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931436#msg-931436 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931436#msg-931436 Troy NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 11:04:10 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931435#msg-931435 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931435#msg-931435 Troy NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 11:01:17 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931433#msg-931433 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931433#msg-931433
You also have a misconception if you think band members inspect venues or clubs. In most clubs they even stay in their tour bus until show time. If the first time they see the place is when they hit the stage, and let's be honest under stage lights you can't see much, how would they be able tos scope the place out for safety issues? Again, this is and was the manager's and operators job.]]> sharkfist NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:56:46 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931431#msg-931431 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931431#msg-931431 RAMSAY NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:51:13 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931430#msg-931430 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931430#msg-931430


Look, unless the members of Great White are Genie's and just magically appeared on the stage, at some point they saw it before they stepped foot on it. Even if it was 5 minutes before showtime, any one of them could have said "our pyro show is too big for this place". They could have pulled the plug on the pyro show as they are the band...]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:48:09 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931429#msg-931429 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931429#msg-931429
This thread has officially turned into comedy gold. Me and Chritian Bale FFS.]]> sharkfist NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:47:05 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931427#msg-931427 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931427#msg-931427 sharkfist NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:42:52 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931426#msg-931426 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931426#msg-931426
The we're two parties that should have known better: the owners of the club and the manager. Both were found guilty of negligence. No member of the band was ever charged. Does that not tell you something? They were not responsible.]]> sharkfist NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:37:37 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931424#msg-931424 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931424#msg-931424 Troy NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:35:33 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931423#msg-931423 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,931176,931423#msg-931423
For him to come out and say "I'm sorry" however worded is not necessary, because he is not responsable. Hell as a human being, I'm sorry it happened, we all are. Let the ones responsible apologize to families, it's not Jack's job or obligation.]]> Troy NoticeboardFri, 22 Feb 2013 10:34:08 +1100