I must admit it - and it might therefore seems strange that I have been posting here for 15 years! - but I have never really been a big fan of hair metal. Oh, I made mistakes and bought some turds but I never ever fell for Warrant, Ratt, Poison and the likes. My tastes always led me to the blusier side of rock, or AOR at the other end, and I somewhat remained unmoved by most of the hair metal bands. It will come as no surprise that my favourite bands from the early to mid- 80's were outfits like Great White, Blackfoot (OK they are from the 70's), Y&T (same as Blackfoot), Tesla and Rough Cutt. Although Tesla and Great White became very successful - my take is that they have kind of a "rocky" side to them that appealed to fans of Springsteen for instance thus seriously widening their target audience - - it always somewhat surpised me that Rough Cutt's career never really took off. I believe that RC were too different from the rest of the 80's bands. They were quite heavy to start with. Much heavier than other melody inclined bands of the time. They did not have pop songs that were radio friendly, with great sing-along choruses . At the same time, they may not have been heavy enough for fans of Metallica and sorts. Their music is more layered than it first appears. It might sound "immediate", but it is not. The guitars are not that flashy, and in my opinion are closer to the spirit of Tony Iommi than the superficial crap of CC DeVille. Then they had a very original singer, whose voice may be an acquired taste. I personally love it. This said, Shortino's voice was not in line with the "girlie" voices of the time (Dokken, Michaels, Neil, etc.). This gave the band a lot of personality but also, perhaps, prevented it from reaching a wider audience. I am currently listening to their albums again after a long pause. I am really surprised by the musical depth of their songs, something that certainly escaped me when I first got into them. The only issue I have, but it is the same with 90 % of melodic rock bands, is that the lyrics for the most part are really poor. If that was important, then Poison should never have had a career! Were RC ahead of their time? I do not think so. However, I feel that their timing was off. Had they come a few years earlier or later when heaviness was more embraced by the masses, they may have had a very different career. That is a long thread to say that I love RC and Shortino LOL.http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926182#msg-926182Thu, 20 Jun 2013 02:13:03 +1000 Phorum 5.2.16 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926424#msg-926424 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926424#msg-926424
Even in the all time list of poor cover versions, Rough Cutt would be right up there.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 18:54:53 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926421#msg-926421 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926421#msg-926421-------------------------------------------------------
> First album granted was lacking in a really obvious
> single but "We're Never Gonna Die" could have been
> a hit with airplay.

Never Gonna Die was a cover.]]> Ydde NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 18:49:31 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926407#msg-926407 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926407#msg-926407 the ORIGINAL brent NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 14:21:08 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926401#msg-926401 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926401#msg-926401
Black Widow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PLoFOrQc0

Piece of My Heart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Fci256nx4]]> Signal Fan NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 13:25:01 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926371#msg-926371 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926371#msg-926371 Troy NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 10:21:54 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926370#msg-926370 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926370#msg-926370 Troy NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 10:17:08 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926364#msg-926364 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926364#msg-926364
They were used as an example, nothing more. It was never a 'versus' thing.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 10:00:47 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926350#msg-926350 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926350#msg-926350
I suspect RC for me will fall into this category. I'm checking out stuff on YT right now and liking quite a lot of it! I like their version of the Janis song (I concede the video is just hysterical!), and Dreaming Again is really good too. They are all pretty good musicians.

RC vs. Warrant? I suspect they weren't as successful since they weren't as pretty. Frankly I never rated Warrant at all, I'm checking stuff now just to check and, no, they're still as naff and lightweight as I remember them.

Don't get me started on Trixter. Whoops I'm going o/t... and all MHO anyhow...]]> Steve_Roamer NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 09:15:07 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926311#msg-926311 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926311#msg-926311
For my tastes Rough Cutt just sounded pedestrian and forced almost. Warrant didn't have great songs because the broke, they broke because they had great songs. Admittedly some bands that broke had nothing (Poison for instance) but most that made it deserved to.

Truthfully I based my opinion on the drummer from the video. Silly of me, I know. I'll give the albums another blast and see if they stick.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 07:16:05 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926305#msg-926305 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926305#msg-926305In terms of media attention, if a band/artist gets enough the public will bite and that's happened more times than we've had hot dinners. Rough Cutt could have had more success with radio play. First album granted was lacking in a really obvious single but "We're Never Gonna Die" could have been a hit with airplay. The 2nd album had 3 or 4 songs that could have been hits. If you don't like them it's fine but it doesn't mean they were bad. David Alford (the drummer) is superb by the by the way and not inept as you say. He might have missed a beat in the video but the guy can play.]]> Carl1 NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 07:06:23 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926295#msg-926295 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926295#msg-926295
The decision to release 'Piece Of My Heart' as the first single/video was badly misjudged.

You can decry (the single) 'Cherry Pie' as nonsense (and you'd be right) but they followed it with 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' which, apart from being a fantastic song, had a superb video to go with it. Say what you like about Warrant, but nothing Rough Cutt released is as good as Cherry Pie (the album) because nobody was as accomplished in the songwriting department as Jani Lane.

The other bands broke because they had the songs. Plain and simple. For every Cherry Pie there was a Mr Rainmaker. For every Stick It there was a House Of Broken Love.

Rough Cutt had nothing.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 06:29:37 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926293#msg-926293 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926293#msg-926293 Carl1 NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 06:06:52 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926283#msg-926283 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926283#msg-926283 Rockingbear NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 05:18:07 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926254#msg-926254 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926254#msg-926254
Fifth Angel and Heaven's Edge being 2 examples.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 02:37:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926252#msg-926252 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926252#msg-926252 Laurent NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 02:19:38 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926251#msg-926251 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926251#msg-926251
Having memorable choruses is not something I really look for. Very often, I find the verses better than the choruses, and it is very true for RC! :-)

There is a lot of music I listen to, and love, where I cannot really sing the melody or chorus. A lot of fusion is like that. Even Pat Metheny, or bands I really know well like Karizma, are like that. I am more going for an atmosphere and an overall feel.

The album Shortino did with QR is fantastic, but IMHO, doesn't really have memorable choruses like those written with DuBrow. This said, I never go back to the DuBrow albums (mostly because I think he was a very poor singer) but still listen to QR IV.

I see that die-hard MR fans "need" a strong chorus, something they can really remember. I am not (always) like that. A chorus doesn't have to be "Bon Jovi catchy" to get my attention. That is probably why I saw something in RC. BTW, I am not saying they should have been the greatest band in the world, but they would have deserved greater success.

I met Amir Derakh in 2008 whilst Orgy was doing great business. He had the full "Orgy" look and was talking to fans. I ask for his autograph telling him I loved his work with QR but was not aware of Orgy... I had read an interview where he sort of "disowned" QR and thought I would take the piss a little :-) Seemed like a decent guy.

I also think that "Piece Of My Heart" is quite appaling.]]> Laurent NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 02:17:58 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926247#msg-926247 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926247#msg-926247
Really, really wish i had not done so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUD3B5PAdB4]]> daveydaveydavo NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 01:42:43 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926246#msg-926246 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926246#msg-926246 Walk In The Shadows NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 01:42:34 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926240#msg-926240 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926240#msg-926240I would disagree with Scott regarding the X factor. If having the X factor means having a hit songs that fit the flavour of the month, then Justin Bieber has the X factor. Not having a hit song doesn't mean your songs are bad.

Thanks for the lesson!

I am well aware that many great songs are not the obvious hits. I often find that the album tracks appeal more to me! The point was merely that, by comparison of their peers, they did not have the tunes..end of! Had they had the appeal/draw of their peers from the era, or some other "x-factor" that propelled them to the forefront, they would have a bigger star today, than that of a cult band that featured Paul Shortino. Another time, another place..maybe they would have appealed, who knows..thats a question we cannot answer.]]> Scott NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 01:09:32 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926237#msg-926237 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926237#msg-926237 kaneudeck NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 00:58:27 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926234#msg-926234 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926234#msg-926234-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't really hear any groove, either. The sound
> is a bit leaden, and 'dead'. I didn't find
> anything impressive about the musicianship
> although, I do concede, Paul has a great voice.
> But the material is just not the right vehicle for
> him.
>
> The 'Piece Of My Heart' video showcases everything
> that's wrong with the band. All 'look' and no
> substance. Shortino gurning and mincing like Shrek
> in drag. The guitarist's just interested in
> throwing shapes and raiding Ozzy's panto wardrobe
> and a drummer so inept that he misses his cue and
> hits a non existent cymbal having been too busy
> twirling his stick.
>
> Horrendous in every respect.
>
> IMHO, of course.

Yow ay rong !!

Had to go and listen to Janis to remove the memory !

Rough Cutt's version is only as bad as Faith Hill's though.]]> gary191265 NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 00:46:27 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926233#msg-926233 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926233#msg-926233
The 'Piece Of My Heart' video showcases everything that's wrong with the band. All 'look' and no substance. Shortino gurning and mincing like Shrek in drag. The guitarist's just interested in throwing shapes and raiding Ozzy's panto wardrobe and a drummer so inept that he misses his cue and hits a non existent cymbal having been too busy twirling his stick.

Horrendous in every respect.

IMHO, of course.]]> rocknut NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 00:33:49 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926226#msg-926226 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926226#msg-926226 gary191265 NoticeboardFri, 11 Jan 2013 00:16:48 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926219#msg-926219 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926219#msg-926219 the ORIGINAL brent NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 23:15:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926216#msg-926216 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926216#msg-926216
Not everything they wrote was great, fair enough. But that is true of many bands. I find very little to save in Warrant, Ratt, Poison, Motley Crue, Roxy Blues, Dokken, Every Mother's Nightmare, Herricane Alice, Pretty Boy Floyd and others.

I would disagree with Scott regarding the X factor. If having the X factor means having a hit songs that fit the flavour of the month, then Justin Bieber has the X factor. Not having a hit song doesn't mean your songs are bad.

I think songs like "Double Trouble", "Take A Chance" or "Dreaming Again" were really good.

I guess that for die-hard melodic rock fans, RC were way to bluesy and groovy.]]> Laurent NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 23:10:30 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926214#msg-926214 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926214#msg-926214Don't know why... but Wants You always puts me in a good mood whenever I listen to it... may not be the greatest collection of songs..but the excellent vocals, the excellent drumming etc... it really works for me, big time. Sorry. :-) Rough Cutt may have been a bit too groovy compared to the mid 80's metal trends...]]> Burg NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 23:02:13 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926202#msg-926202 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926202#msg-926202 Peter M. Bietenholz NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 22:13:21 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926199#msg-926199 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926199#msg-926199 Scott NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 21:49:34 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926192#msg-926192 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926192#msg-926192
I remember i used to have a Rough Cutt album on vinyl, and that's all i can tell you about them. That and i haven't been obsessed with replacing it on cd.]]> Scott Watson NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 20:48:35 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926189#msg-926189 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,926182,926189#msg-926189
Their cover of 'Piece Of My Heart' is so bad it's not true. The video is even worse.

I never liked a thing they did.]]> rocknut NoticeboardThu, 10 Jan 2013 19:34:57 +1100