Just thinking about the Chaz West and Asia posts from before? Where do fans draw the line on a band no longer being acceptable as the same band? Giant - replace Dann Huff and there's braying for blood, "how could Frontiers do this, it's not Giant, i'll never buy another album... blah blah blah" Hardline - the singer records a project entirely written and produced by a hired backing team of Italian guys who also all write and play on many other albums together not under the name "Hardline", and they are suitable headliners for Firefests 10th Anniversary? Foreigner, Journey, AC/DC, Styx have all replaced the unreplaceable and been largely embraced, and had great success and longevity. Yet the same fans who embrace these guys would turn their noses up at bands like Giant, John Payne's Asia (I know it's ridiculous that he introduces songs he, nor any other band member, had anything to do with as "a song from our album", but that's the nature of performing at state fairs and summer festivals where no-one really knows who the fuck any of you are... at the end of the day he and Guthrie had longer tenures in Asia than John Wetton or Steve Howe ever did), Sweet, Vixen, and so many others... What's the difference? I'm not shit-stirring, i'm genuinely curious. I tend to like a band no matter who's in it, if the music is good or at least to my liking. If Firefest had been headlined by the Dann-less Giant and Over The Rainbow, this noticeboard would have been full of detractors and nay-sayers... but Hardline and Legends feat Joe Lynn Turner, Eric Martin & Fergie Frederiksen playing the hits of Rainbow, Mr. Big and Toto, are somehow more acceptable... why is that? Intrigued... Nivhttp://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923501#msg-923501Fri, 24 May 2013 12:27:11 +1000 Phorum 5.2.16 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923934#msg-923934 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923934#msg-923934This new band play 90% Whitesnake live and started off as Micky Moody's Whitesnake, then Monsters Of British Rock and are now Snakecharmer.
Admittedly, they'll probably do it better than the current version of Whitesnake, but they still border that tribute band category, just as much as Giant, Hardline, Jimi Jamison's Survivor, etc and so on and so forth...
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardThu, 20 Dec 2012 11:01:10 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923890#msg-923890 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923890#msg-923890
http://www.snakecharmer.org/revs.html]]> Tony Bainbridge NoticeboardThu, 20 Dec 2012 06:54:50 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923832#msg-923832 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923832#msg-923832 Big Al NoticeboardThu, 20 Dec 2012 01:11:48 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923825#msg-923825 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923825#msg-923825I know people probably won't give them a chance, but like I say, Kelly got a chance to show his talents by joining Foreigner, so it'll be interesting to see what his old band do without he and Jay writing...
I still think if Giant had got the right vocalist, and produced more than one album of left-over Huff and Spiro songs and songs by Erik Martesson (Mr. Frontiers Project) they'd have made a better go of it.
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 23:50:26 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923762#msg-923762 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923762#msg-923762 RAB NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 20:03:26 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923745#msg-923745 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923745#msg-923745
Giant had the same lineup for 3 albums, then lose a the lead singer, guitar player, primary songwriter, keyboardist and co-writer.

Hardline:
Double Eclipse: Gioeli, Schon, Gioeli, Jensen, Castronovo
II: Gioeli, Ramos, Gioeli, Maloney, Rock, Ross
Leaving The End Open: Gioeli, Ramos, Ross, Brown, Anur

I did say they are skating a thin line but they never had a set band anyway, so as long as the voice is there, the songs retain some of the feel, I don't see them as a cover band. Giant however lost too much of what they were to be called Giant.

Other small bands that changed members and worked IMO without being "cover bands"...Baton Rouge, Tangier, Beggars & Thieves, Danger Danger, House Of Lords, Hurricane.]]> Troy NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 18:31:44 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923708#msg-923708 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923708#msg-923708It wasn't a bad album, it wasn't really a Giant album, and I still think terry was the wrong choice of vocalist.
But yeah my point was proven. Because all the bands you mention it being ok for are the huge bands, and the bands that should never do it, are "our little bands".
That's why i'm confused by the new Hardline, which Johnny just sang on, and an Italian backing band did everything else, being ok with so many here.
The two albums that the Gioeli's and Josh Ramos wrote were completely panned.
I think everyone is replaceable in a band, it just depends whether you want to replace them with an impersonator or go in a new direction with them. Bon Jovi have replaced Richie to tour a few times, and I don't think it made a dent in their wallets.
I also think it opens the door for new talents to emerge. Most of the world wouldn't know who Jeff Scott Soto is if it wasn't for his stint with Journey which showed his talents to a much, much bigger audience. Likewise Blaze Bayley. The latest guy will be Nic Maeder, now's his chance to sink or swim. Brian Johnson, Steve Augeri, even Jimi Jamison and Mickey Thomas back in the day...
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 09:24:35 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923657#msg-923657 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923657#msg-923657 Captain Can Man NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 04:37:19 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923656#msg-923656 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923656#msg-923656
Bon Jovi never would have worked without Jon or Richie, but I think others in the band could have been replaced if necessary.

Iron Maiden changed singers and sounded the same musically, but Blaze was nowhere near the vocalist or songwriter Dickinson was.

There's a ton of more examples where it did and didn't work though.

Going back to Giant there is not one song on that album that sounds like anything from the 3 Giant albums, everything that Giant was left with Dann.]]> Troy NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 04:32:34 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923641#msg-923641 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923641#msg-923641 Captain Can Man NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 03:19:35 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923635#msg-923635 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923635#msg-923635
The core of what made Van Halen what it was was still there, Eddie wrote all the music, Michael was still there, Alex was still there, VH lost a frontman. They brought in a new singer who still had an attitude, who could write with Eddie's style and they didn't miss a beat.

You can't even begin to compare the differences of Dann Huff leaving and DLR leaving. DLR was a bigger star but he was not the man behind the Van Halen sound, Dann was the man who made Giant what it was tho. Dann with hired Nashville Musicians could have worked because Dann was the singer, guitarist and main songwriter.]]> Troy NoticeboardWed, 19 Dec 2012 03:13:33 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923592#msg-923592 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923592#msg-923592I personally would really like to see Legends: Voices Of Rock in concert, but hopefully performing your own show, not a shortened festival set.
I'm excited by the new guys that are joining you're band, and I know the musicianship will be superb.
Is there any news on a UK tour at some point, or will Firefest be your sole UK date?
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 23:24:39 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923591#msg-923591 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923591#msg-923591I think it is a business, and who's right to say that these guys shouldn't go out and continue their business? Just because someone died or quit the business?
However, my point is proven in the very first reply.
"Giant I would absolutely not accept, because it wasn't Giant, take away the main singer and songwriter and it's not the same".
Yet in the same post says it worked for Van Halen. Who lost their "singer", but also the main showman, and the guy that kind of embodied everything that Van Halen was back then. They managed to find success with a completely different singer and songwriter replacing him.
I think fans of this genre, take ownership of the little bands that are so uniquely belonging to this genre, and make them untouchable, but reside with the fact that the bigger bands are a big machine and have to go on regardless.
If Bon Jovi replaced anyone other than JBJ, people on here would be outraged for a few days, but in the end that big machine would keep on rolling, churning out hit singles and million selling albums and packed-out stadium tours, and the fuss would soon die down.
But if Harem Scarem reunited without Harry or Pete, this site would crash, and it would be unthinkable.
I was fine with the new Giant. I wouldn't have chosen Terry Brock to sing. He's a good fit for the album they recorded, but he's one of those guys that's on everything, and that took something away, and made it feel like a studio project rather than the return of a genre-classic band. John Roth was a very good choice. It's just a shame that no one was ever going to give it a chance, and Giant's potential last album is more of a Frontier's studio project that has little to do with the bands heritage.
Would it have been more acceptable for Dann Huff to hire a group Nashville session guys and call himself Giant... even though chances are the album would have been a slick country-pop album judging from Dann's output in the past 15 years or so...
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 23:19:03 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923579#msg-923579 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923579#msg-923579 MetroGnome NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 22:29:32 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923576#msg-923576 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923576#msg-923576
Legends to me is a great way to pay tribute. My feeling is that this is a real tribute band but with the added, and important bonus, of having the original singers singing the songs.

As far as bands are concerned, I will take the example of my favourite band Whitesnake.

Is the band still WS? I think in their case, I would not call them a tribute band today, although I really do not care for their music anymore. To me Whitesnake died in 1984. This said, Coverdale built up a brand new band after that. OK it is not a band, it is him with hired guns but they recorded new music, and played less and less music from the classic line-up. To me, as the set consists mostly of songs written after 1984, this WS is not a tribute band: it is a band of its own.

I would agree that a band that retains some original members, or at least those who wrote the songs, cannot be considered a tribute band: Foreginer, AC/DC, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Toto, etc. were never tribute band. They are living entities that continued developing, writing, recording and touring.]]> Laurent NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 22:00:40 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923556#msg-923556 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923556#msg-923556good questions and valid points i think.

I can only answer for us in Legends.
I personally don't like to be called a little tribute act because we run Legends like a real company with several people employed almost full time.
It's a VERY serious project to pay sincere respect to these legendary singers and musicians we have working with us.

We are not Rainbow mk 4 or Totwo or Bill Champlin's Chicago etc...we are so respectful to the original bands and their sound and to the singers and their history.
The only way for us to be great is to make sure the band sounds VERY close to the original versions and force the singers to dig back to how they sounded when the songs became huge hits...and we actually do a pretty amazing job with this.

I've read reviews in big news papers saying "Toto the way the should sound"...Joe said in his interview with Steve Price that this concept has been done a few times before but the difference with Legends is the quality of the band and the whole show...

All of our singers have said the same thing..."you've me understand how great we were back in the days when it all started"...that is the whole point.
So...we will NOT play the rare and odd songs a couple of fans ask for, we pay huge respect to their biggest hits and show why they are worthy of their legendary status.

So please don't compare us to bands touring with the wrong members but keeping the old name :)

Since yesterday we are also very proud to have Jimi Jamison and Robin Beck as new members in our awsome team...and no they will not join us at FF :)

But please have a look at www.legends-vor.com to see what fantastic names we have in Legends.
And Eric Martin is of course part now as well and a couple of more BIG names are coming soon also :)

Cheers
T]]> Tommy-Denander NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 20:52:09 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923548#msg-923548 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923548#msg-923548
Having seen the online clips of the Swedish TV show where Legends played with Fergie, Steve Augeri and Bill Champlin, the musicianship, etc, was just so good. And it's a celebration of the genre.

I appreciate that for many people everything I have said is total bollox, but this is the way I feel about it.]]> GuitarheroAndy NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 20:12:35 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923540#msg-923540 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923540#msg-923540
Some are a disaster...Queen and whoever, Thin Lizzy (Cos Phil was more than just the singer, he was the beating heart of Lizzy) Van Halen (Don't get DLR, you just get a singer)

Of course it's all down to personal tastes...]]> MCFCTrick NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 19:46:36 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923516#msg-923516 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923516#msg-923516
Rock bands are a buisness. Where there is money to be made, someone will figure out a way to make it. If Neal Schon, and Jon Cain died tomorrow, do you think that Ross Valory wouldn't take the name Journey and still tour with it. It doesn't matter that he is just a bass player that had very little to do with anything other than keeping the bass lines. He has even less of a role in the sound of Journey than Gregg Rolie did! LOL

To make a long story short, if there is a market for the music, someone will be on tour with it...]]> Captain Can Man NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 16:19:30 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923510#msg-923510 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923510#msg-923510
Every situation is different though, so it's hard to just make a blanket statement regarding everyone.

For me, it's the songwriting, the voice, the sound, etc. Take one away and you can maybe get by (ie: Van Halen, Danger Danger, Black Sabbath)

But once you replace the voice, and the songwriter and some of the main cogs of the bands sound (ie: Giant)...Nope, that's a cover band.

Hardline is skating a thin line with me, only because they never really had a set lineup. Schon always said it was a project for him, not a new band. Every album had a different lineup, so with Gioeli still being there as the voice and one of the main songwriters I'm fine with him carrying on Hardline.

Foreigner, Styx, Journey etc are accepted more because they still have original members who wrote the songs, they still can capture the old sound and they went for singers who didn't change the dynamics of the band.]]> Troy NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 14:21:52 +1100 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923501#msg-923501 http://www.melodicrock.com/phorum52/read.php?1,923501,923501#msg-923501Where do fans draw the line on a band no longer being acceptable as the same band?
Giant - replace Dann Huff and there's braying for blood, "how could Frontiers do this, it's not Giant, i'll never buy another album... blah blah blah"
Hardline - the singer records a project entirely written and produced by a hired backing team of Italian guys who also all write and play on many other albums together not under the name "Hardline", and they are suitable headliners for Firefests 10th Anniversary?
Foreigner, Journey, AC/DC, Styx have all replaced the unreplaceable and been largely embraced, and had great success and longevity.
Yet the same fans who embrace these guys would turn their noses up at bands like Giant, John Payne's Asia (I know it's ridiculous that he introduces songs he, nor any other band member, had anything to do with as "a song from our album", but that's the nature of performing at state fairs and summer festivals where no-one really knows who the fuck any of you are... at the end of the day he and Guthrie had longer tenures in Asia than John Wetton or Steve Howe ever did), Sweet, Vixen, and so many others...
What's the difference?
I'm not shit-stirring, i'm genuinely curious. I tend to like a band no matter who's in it, if the music is good or at least to my liking.
If Firefest had been headlined by the Dann-less Giant and Over The Rainbow, this noticeboard would have been full of detractors and nay-sayers... but Hardline and Legends feat Joe Lynn Turner, Eric Martin & Fergie Frederiksen playing the hits of Rainbow, Mr. Big and Toto, are somehow more acceptable... why is that?
Intrigued...
Niv]]> nivjourney NoticeboardTue, 18 Dec 2012 12:14:20 +1100