Halford-Resurrection

RE: Halford-Resurrection

Rob — Fri, 08 Sep 2000 05:30:13 +1100

The New Maiden is so great! It's good ole Maiden but the songs are just sooo strong! Must have been Dickenson going solo to help with that. I can't wait to hear the new Halford, i've heard nothing but great things about it!

Rob

http://www.bonstinrocks.com

RE: Halford-Resurrection

Thomas — Sun, 03 Sep 2000 12:16:47 +1100

Thanks for the information...appreciate it.
Thomas

John Q wrote:
-------------------------------
Thomas, the titles are 'Sad Wings (Of Destiny)' and 'Hell's Last Survivor'. Both are in-your-face uptempo Priest-style rockers and probably closest to 'Cyber World' and/or 'Saviour' on the album. I think both bonus tracks are better than either 'Saviour' or 'Cyber World'. I downloaded them at www.immortalsin.com, a great website dedicated to the Metal God. There is also another Halford-related site, Exciter, and yet another Japanese site where you might find them (check the links on 'immortalsin').

RE: Halford-Resurrection

John Q — Sun, 03 Sep 2000 09:10:32 +1100

Thomas, the titles are 'Sad Wings (Of Destiny)' and 'Hell's Last Survivor'. Both are in-your-face uptempo Priest-style rockers and probably closest to 'Cyber World' and/or 'Saviour' on the album. I think both bonus tracks are better than either 'Saviour' or 'Cyber World'. I downloaded them at www.immortalsin.com, a great website dedicated to the Metal God. There is also another Halford-related site, Exciter, and yet another Japanese site where you might find them (check the links on 'immortalsin').

RE: Halford-Resurrection

Thomas — Sun, 03 Sep 2000 04:54:43 +1100

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What are the titles of the two bonus tracks and could you describe them please. I have the regular version of this cd and I think it's amazing. Could it even be better with the two extra tracks!!!

Thanks
Thomas

RE: Just for interest's sake...

Don — Sun, 03 Sep 2000 02:48:14 +1100
...(and not that I'm trying to drag this out or anything, it's just that this goes to show what I've been raving about regarding personal taste and all) I'll comment on the "filler" tracks you listed:

'You Say Yes' - The closest thing to filler that you've mentioned (IMO). Still, if I had a choice of owning the "Point of Entry" album with or without this track, I'd rather have it.

'Parential Guidance' - Lyrics are astoundingly corny and contrived, but it's still a d@mn catchy song and there's no way I'd want it left off of "Turbo." I can fully understand and appreciate why so many Priest fans hated this album, and yet, for me it just served to prove that if JP wanted to do the more commercial kind of metal that was so huge in those days, they could not only compete with the Ratts and Crues, but blow them away. Now, that's a bit of an over-simplification, but I still think that in the end, this was meant to be a commercial metal album, and it wound up succeeding in this regard. It was a collection of 8 finely crafted, potentially huge radio/video "hits" ("Hot For Love" just didn't stack up - it was "filler" :-) ). Tracks like "Reckless" "Out in the Cold," "Locked In," and "Wild Nights..." were amazingly hook-laden and simply oozed airplay potential. Trouble is, that's not what most Priest fans wanted or expected from JP. Still, in my mind, that doesn't make it a bad album. (Same with Harem Scarem's "Rubber" - if that album had been made by the Collective Soul, a lot of people who hated it might have been more willing to give it a chance. But many HS fans are gonna be disappointed with anything that doesn't sound like "Mood Swings.") My advice to those people is to just listen to it, enjoy it, and tell themselves it was Dokken, or Ratt, or whatever.

the horribly bad 'Johnny B. Goode' - I agree here, but then again, I've already established that I am not at all a fan of either the "Ram It Down" or "Painkiller" albums. Interestingly, I've heard that "Ram it Down" was basically made up of the leftover tracks from the "Turbo" sessions. I remember reading that they had recorded LOTS of tracks and considered making a double album. Instead, apparently, they grouped the radio friendly ones for "Turbo," and held back the heavier/less commercial ones for "RiD." I don't know how much truth there is to this story, but it's what I've read.

'Don't Go' - Admittedly, this is not one of my fave tracks either. See comments re. "You Say Yes."

'Fever' - I LOVE this track!!! For me, every song on "Screaming For Vengeance" is absolutely vital.

'Some Heads Are Gonna Roll' - This is one of my fave tracks from "Defenders." For me, the album definitely wouldn't be as good without it.

In the end, all I'm trying to do is reinforce my point (and not just to you, John), that taste in music is a totally personal thing. When one person listens to a track from an album (or an entire album) and feels nothing, he/she needs to realize that someone else out there is probably loving that material in a huge way. So which person is right? I dunno, but that raises the question, "Who's qualified to judge?" And how do you judge an artform like music? IMO, it can't be done. Everyone listens for a slightly different reason. That's why tastes differ. This has been my sermon for the day, LOL!!

Take care, and thanks again for your input, John.
Don

RE: Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.

John Q — Sat, 02 Sep 2000 19:04:44 +1100
Don,

Just a couple of things to close this out. I wasn't expecting all that much from the new Maiden, but I was expecting more because I knew Bruce and Adrian were/are great writers and could really contribute in that regard. However, when they first released the track listing along with the credits and I saw that it was mostly Harris and Gers, I knew that, in all likelyhood, it was not gonna be very good - and mt fears were confirmed. If you get a kick ot of BNW - more power to you. I wish I could enjoy it more but I can't even listen to it in one sitting because it bores me too much and I have to replace it with something livelier - such as 'Resurrection'!

As for Priest and filler. I'd say, stuff like 'You Say Yes', 'Parential Guidance' or the horribly bad 'Johnny B. Goode' as well as much of 'Turbo' fit the criteria, and I can't say I've ever enjoyed songs like 'Don't Go, 'Fever', or 'Some Heads Are Gonna Roll' all that much. However, these (minor) shortcomings pale in comparison to all the absolutely monumental stuff JP have come up with over the years. Priest could probably play for 12 hours straight and it would be nothing but classics. They truly are the gods of heavy metal and Maiden owe them a big debt.

RE: regarding Iron Maiden

John Q — Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:43:51 +1100
Why you do - and I and many others - like the Halford album? Simple. Instead of bragging about how they were gonna kick Metallica's ass (now there's a feat my dead grandmother couldn't accomplish all by herself...), take over the world and become the biggest band in metal again, like Maiden did, Halford put together a killer band, hooked up with the right producer, wrote a bunch of great songs, and made an album worthy of his legacy - something that is totally up to par, classic yet somehow with enough of a fresh twist. Maiden on the other hand just blew a lot of hot air and croacked. If BNW was anywhere near as good as 'Resurrection', Maiden might've actually had a chance to kickstart traditional metal here in America because of the name recognition they have, which Halford, on his own, does not. Instead they've given everyone from MTV to the younger generation of fans a reason to continue to ignore heavy metal as 'dinosaur rock played by old farts'. The rock scene in 2000 could've used a GREAT Maiden album; it didn't need 'the best Maiden album since 'Seventh Son' - that just ain't good enough anymore.

RE: regarding Iron Maiden

Surfpunk — Sat, 02 Sep 2000 12:24:11 +1100
To be honest I can't be bothered analysing the MAIDEN album like John Q. (I do actually rate Kevin Shirley VERY highly by the way, but I agree that, apart from the bass drum sound I can't quite see what he brought Maiden that Martin Birch didn't!)
However, I thought the rock scene in 2000 needed an IRON MAIDEN album like a fish needs a bike! So why do I like the Halford album? Pure personal bias I guess. Maiden would not exist if not for Priest ( and don't start me on that one!) and as someone else said, Steve Harris ran out of riffs a looong time ago. (Did a Warren, as in Demartini, as it's called!!)

RE: Halford-Resurrection

Davy(N.I.) — Sat, 02 Sep 2000 07:10:01 +1100
"Brave New World" is definitely a big step back in the right direction for Maiden,as is "Resurrection" for Rob,but what about Maiden getting Roy Z involved in production duties for their next album?
Roll on the U.K. dates in November!!

RE: Halford-Resurrection

EchoMan — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:39:51 +1100
I agree that Halford rocks.... but as for the album of 2000..... As I type this I am listening to a third generation promo of Journey's Arrival!!! Every song on it gives me goosebums (except maybe the last one, "We Will Meet Again"... I love it!!! Even tho sound quality on my copy could have been better. Unless they delay it again, so it releases 2001 it _will_ IMHO be the album of 2000!

Just my $0.02..

Ps. Don't get me wrong here, I _will_ be at my local CD dealer picking the album up whenever they now release it, I just couldn't pass on the offer to receive the promo.... I use napster/CDR to browse what's out there, and then buy what I like.... Not trying to be anyones concience or anything, it's just how I feel.
:)

RE: Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.

Don — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 15:57:47 +1100
Hi John,

First of all, let me thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed, thorough explanation. I really appreciate your efforts. Now, with regards to Maiden and the quality of "BNW" (or lack thereof, as the case might be), let me just say that, in the end, still enjoy it. I don't consider it to be as good as "Piece of Mind" (my personal fave) or "Number of the Beast" (a very close 2nd to "PoM"), but I still like it. I agree that some of the songs are a little long, and err... cumbersome. But in the end, somehow I still like it, overall. Maybe it's just because my expectations weren't as high as those of bigger Maiden fans. In any case, you've given me lots to think about when I listen to the album from now on.

As far as the Priest vs. Maiden thing goes, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. With the exception of their last three studio albums ("Ram It Down," "Painkiller," and "Jugulator"), I love all of their albums and I can't think of too many Priest tunes that I'd consider to be filler. In fact, I love the fact that when I listen to most Priest albums, I get quality from start to finish. I even love "Turbo" despite the fact that it was a deliberate sell-out/blatent attempt at commerciality (there are some d@mn catchy tunes on that album!!!). I cannot hear anything I'd even remotely consider wanting removed from albums like "Screaming For Vengeance," "British Steel," "Stained Class," "Sad Wings of Destiny," etc. On the other hand, I could probably name at least one track from most of the Maiden albums (and several from some) that I could easily live without. Again, it comes down to personal preferences, doesn't it?

Once again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I really do appreciate it. You are obviously not only extremely knowledgeable, but also very gifted in terms of your ability to clearly communicate your thoughts and opinions (I guess that's why I asked you for clarification with regards your opinion of "BNW"). I really respect that, and as always, I look forward to reading more of your posts. Take care.
Don

RE: regarding Iron Maiden

Dave — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 15:24:37 +1100
John Q brought up a good point about the Halford CD. The Halford Cd will
now be the music that is the benchmark for all metal CD's. The production on Halford is what metal is supposed to sound like. All other CD's production, example (BNWorld & Yngwie's Alchemy) are weak in comparison. If you play Halford loud it will blow the roof off your house.

I do feel Brave New World is a solid effort though.
The band are past their prime but made a good record.

RE: Thanks Benno & KAOS...

Don — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 13:55:38 +1100
I appreciate your input regarding this album. I do own "Brave New World," and like I mentioned, I like it a lot. In fact, I've liked it more with every spin I've given it. I guess that's why I was so curious about why some Maiden fans seem to be so disappointed with it. Maybe it's just a matter of my expectations being lower than those of big fans of the band. Any way you slice it, it boils down to personal taste. Thanks again and take care.
Don

RE: regarding Iron Maiden

John Q — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:26:16 +1100
I bought "Brave New World" and like it very much. I've seen very mixed reactions to it from Maiden fans, and each time I listen to it I try to figure out what makes it so sub-par in the minds of some Maiden fans. Can you shed some light on this for me? Is it the songwriting, or the playing/musicianship, or the production, or what? Thanks.

Don, it's a combination of things for me. The only positive are Bruce's vocals - he sounds great even when he has to sing mediocre songs. As for those songs. Here's the major problem: Other than 'The Wicker Man', this album simply does NOT rock - it just sort of plods along, never really gets going. It is really distressing that Bruce and Adrian, surely the band's best writers at this point if AoB and TCW are any indication, were almost shut out in terms of writing.

Add to that that Harris hasn't had a fresh new idea in about 15 years, and neither Gers nor Murray have ever been stellar writers. What make it even worse is that Steve, for some reason, is - and has been for a while now - on this pseudo progressive trip and thinks he can write these 8 or 9 minute epics, none of which work and get boring about half way through. Yes, Maiden had epics even back in the day, but not 5 or 6 on the same freakin' album, not to mention that stuff like 'Rime OTAM' was actually put together well!

Not only are most songs overly long and unnecessarily drawn out, the production is completely flat (try to A/B BNW with 'Resurrection' and you'll see what I mean...), which makes it even worse. The guitars especially sound thin (3 guitarists? You gotta be kidding me...!) and the guitar work is not thought out at all - total lack of cool harmonies a la 'Phantom Of The Opera' for starters (3 guitarists? You gotta be kidding me...!). The whole thing sounds like they did not spend enough time to really craft the album, fine tune it.

Also, turns out it really wasn't a good idea for Maiden to record this thing mostly live (not only because Nicko's meter is all over the place...) because Kevin Shirley (who should never EVER be allow to produce another metal band...) was simply out of his element in that regard. Stick with Journey and Silverchair, Kev! I'm not blaming the guy for the stinker BNW has turned out to be, but Shirley didn't help matters at all. I'd still rather hear weak songs produced well than having bad production ruin things even more.

So there you have it - my many gripes. I guess, how you view BNW depends on when you got into Maiden, too. Having grown up with classic Maiden, BNW sounds incredibly lackluster and uninspired compared to 'Beast' or 'KIllers', which were unbelievably energetic and had attitude and swagger galore. I really can't relate to people that are saying this takes them right back - the magic simply isn't there even though the same people are. Now if you're a bit younger and got into Maiden around 'Fear Of The Dark' or 'No Prayer For The Dying' and think these albums are the pinnacle (and such people do exist...!), then I can understand the euphoria because BNW is as good as those two albums and better than the Blaze stuff (Blaze's solo album incidentally is very good in a (heavier) Maiden sort of way - and far better than BNW).

Now as for Priest vs. Maiden. I do prefer JP overall - Halford is a god and Glenn & KK are great songwriters and a classic guitar team, but I think Maiden, back when they were at their peak, wrote more consistant albums. I don't think Priest have never had anything quite as good as 'Number Of The Beast' or 'Killers'. They always had a song or two that weren't up to par.... On the other hand, JP have never let up like Maiden have ever since 1988. OK, 'Turbo' and 'Ram It Down' were not masterpieces, but anything from 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' on up is far superior than any post-'7th Son' Maiden. Even 'Jugulator' has its moments and puts the last 5 Maiden studio albums to utter shame.

That's my 2wo pesetas.

RE: Sorry to butt in...Maiden fan -Don

KAOS FAN — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:24:13 +1100
John Q's obviously a very knowledgeable metal guy but i have to disagree with him on the new Maiden album. I think it's great and I'm a massive Maiden fan possessing all their records. And I can tell you critically it's been received exceptionally well - I have at least 20 magazine reviews and the only lukewarm one was the Terrorizer review - 7 out of 10. By the same token out of my 20 or so metal mates who have heard it only 2 dislike the album. My only criticism is the bass playing of Steve Harris being less prominent than usual but it's easily the best thing they've done since 1988 Seventh Son. I would rate it better than"Somewhere in Time", and on a par with my favourites Piece of Mind and Powerslave. Vocally, Bruce sounds great and songs like "The Wicker Man" are as catchy as anything they've done. It's also got a certain raw, live feel to the production reminiscent of their early work which works a treat. Anyways, buy it and see what you think. Cheers. KAOS FAN...

Sorry to butt in...

Benno — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:36:19 +1100
Don, I've heard the new Maiden album, and I've never been a fan really, but I reckon the new one rocks. I can't fault it, its just a great rock/metal album. I'd be interested to hear what a Maiden fan would think as well, but I tell ya, I rate it regardless.

Cheers and beers

Benno

RE: John Q - regarding Iron Maiden

Don — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 07:42:20 +1100
"The Halford-Priest reunion in 2002 should be interesting... gotta be better than that DOA atrocity Maiden just committed."

Hi John,

I've always been a Maiden fan, but I've never been a HUGE fan, if that makes sense. I like most of their stuff, and absolutely love some of it. But all in all, I've always much prefered Priest and a number of other bands to Maiden. I appreciate what they've accomplished and all that, but I still don't think I could consider myself to be a huge fan or anything. Now that that's been said, here goes: I bought "Brave New World" and like it very much. I've seen very mixed reactions to it from Maiden fans, and each time I listen to it I try to figure out what makes it so sub-par in the minds of some Maiden fans. Can you shed some light on this for me? Is it the songwriting, or the playing/musicianship, or the production, or what? Thanks.
Don

RE: Halford-Resurrection

John Q — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 06:44:02 +1100
BY FAR the best album of 2000 and a future metal classic. The Priest guys must be really depressed right about now because there is no way they'll ever top 'Resurrection'. Good thing they postponed their album - which was supposed to be out a year ago - yet AGAIN! I would, too, after hearing 'Resurrection'. The Japanese bonus tracks on 'Rez' do kick major ass - most bands would kill to have tracks this good on their regular releases. The Halford-Priest reunion in 2002 should be interesting... gotta be better than that DOA atrocity Maiden just committed.

RE: Halford-Resurrection

Surfpunk — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 06:32:19 +1100
I have to agree, it is a real return to form for Rob. And some might be surprised to see that coming from me, but respect where it's due. Priest were the band that got me into the rock scene in the first place and I owe him for that.

Just a matter of time now before the inevitable...

Halford-Resurrection

mike — Fri, 01 Sep 2000 03:12:06 +1100
I just got the new cd from japan with 2 bonus tracks and i must say this might be the BEST album of 2000!! this fucker ROCKS!!! WOOHOOO!!