Dennis DeYoung

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Debbie — Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:23:21 +1000

Todd,

You keep singling out Tommy in all of your arguments. I'm beginning to think that you have a specific grudge toward Tommy (and only Tommy) since you refuse to acknowledge and admitt to the fact that EVERYONE ELSE in the band (including OTHER ORIGINAL BAND MEMBERS, crew, and management (and even CMC) has all gone along with all of this.

So many people can't possibly be dictated to by one solitary person... Or maybe that's the way someone wanted it to be all along and this person had a very rude awakening last year.

I used to have so much respect for Dennis until all of this nonsense started. Now, I just feel sorry for the man and I would really like to have him back, but I think that he's burned too many bridges for that to happen any time soon.

"Todd," I don't want to get into a personal shouting match with you because you obviously refuse to see both sides to this, but your calling my words "a whole bunch of hooey" was really unnecessary. I was simply recounting and gathering information and history that anyone who even bothers to look can come up with on their own. You will also notice that I also included a list of all the articles (at least, that I know of) that Dennis participated in so that others can read his own words and decide for themselves. Are you going to try to call all of the reporters', interviewers', and even Dennis' own words "hooey" as well? Oh, and I also forgot to mention that there are several audio interviews with Dennis available on www.retrorewind.com as well. Now, surely that is indeed Dennis' voice, now isn't it???

Hmmm, I seem to notice a few AOL addresses popping up lately that are severely anti-Tommy (who also feels the need to harrass someone who isn't even a decision-maker in all this) lately on the 'net. Makes me wonder who this person really is. Hmmm???? I know of at least one person who has made her feelings quite brutally known on the Internet and I'd say that she is *severely* biased.

I don't claim to know everything but I do have a brain and I can read, so I have been able to roughly put the pieces to together on my own. To me, it certainly doesn't sound like Dennis is being shafted by EVERYONE FOR NO APPARENT REASON.

Debbie

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Jane — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:14:29 +1000

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Um...YEAH!

Whatever.....

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Jane Sharma — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:12:14 +1000

Did you ever stop to think that *maybe* Tommy didn't find it his place to comment on DDY's health? (ie, saying he's "fit as a fiddle", or saying "you'd have to ask DDY that")

Silence on something does not equal guilt or lies.

Ever hear of the saying, "The squeakiest wheel gets the oil?"

Hmmmmmmmmm...me thinks DDY is doing an awful lot of "squeaking."

Whatever.......

RE: Maybe We Need Tommy Shaw Side Of This Story

Stacy — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:08:09 +1000

Todd, Jan, all you other "tommy haters" et al.. why don't you let the facts speak for themselves. I hardly believe that Tommy orchestrated this little coup that you are so sure happened.

The Best Of Times

Gowan brings new energy to Styx as it begins to climb back

By: Craig McKee

It’s one of the best kept secrets in music.

Two acts that credit Montreal with helping them get their shot at
stardom are now one – although few people, particularly in Canada, seem
to have notice.

Lawrence Gowan, the Canadian solo star who’s been churning out hit songs
since the mid 1980s, is now the keyboard player and vocalist for Styx,
once the top rock act in the world.

The result is a rebirth for the band and a dynamic live show that many
fans are describing as the best Styx has ever done.

“You hate to sound cocky, but we know it’s strong,” Gowan said backstage
before a recent solo gig in Kitchener, Ont., during a break in Styx’s
tour. Since it started last July, the tour has racked up more than 100
shows and plans are to continue at least through the end of the year. No
date for Montreal has been set, but the group assures fans they’ll make
it here.

“I know those guys love Montreal,” Gowan says. “We both have this
amazing fondness for the place, because it’s where both of our musics
were first embraced.”

And Gowan seems to fit into the band’s new dynamic as if he was always
meant to be there. He says his concern in replacing longtime band
frontman Dennis DeYoung is that he do the songs justice, while bringing
his own interpretation to Styx’s classic hits.

“I feel that the musical values of Styx are very much intact with me
being part of it,” he says. “I’m walking that tightrope every night,
and it’s a tightrope I love being up on. I don’t feel off balance even
for a second doing it with those guys.”

And it’s clear the rest of the group sees Gowan as a key part of the
group’s future, both for his stage presence and the musical
contributions he can make on future albums. Guitarist Tommy Shaw, who
has emerged as the new creative leader of the band since DeYoung’s
controversial departure, says Gowan was “born for this job.”

“He brings his criminal mind [to the band] in more ways than one,” jokes
Shaw in an interview from his Los Angeles home. There’s something wrong
with that man, and I hope he never changes.

“He’s very serious, but he has a child-like curiosity and enthusiasm
that’s perfect for what we’re doing.”

And Gowan’s entry into the group has a strong Quebec connection.
Blainville resident Kim Ouellette, who operates Tommy Shaw’s official
web site, was the one who suggested to Shaw that Gowan would make a
great replacement. Shaw remembered the tremendous response Gowan had
received when he opened for Styx in 1997 in Montreal and Quebec City,
and gave him a call. In less than an hour after the suggestion was
made, Gowan had agreed to fly to California to meet the band.

Lawrence Gowan first emerged on the music scene in the early ‘80s at
just about the time Styx’s hugely successful period was about to end in
bitterness following the Kilroy Was Here album and tour.

Gowan’s first big hit was Criminal Mind, a haunting piano number that
sounded eerily perfect for the Styx progressive rock style even then.
And the song may end up on the next Styx album, offering Gowan the
chance he never really had to have his music exposed to American fans.

“We might end up recording the song because it’s such a great song, and
with Styx playing it, it’s like brand new,” Shaw says.

After that first success, Gowan continued to produce hits in Canada like
You’re A Strange Animal, Moonlight Desires, All The Lovers In The World,
When There’s Time For Love, and Dancing On My Own Ground.

“Our fans absolutely love the guy, and they don’t know half of what he’s
capable of.”

Shaw says when he and Gowan sit down to work on new material they tend
to gravitate to songs in the art rock style that made Styx huge in the
late ‘70s and early ‘80s. Gowan says he’s very comfortable with this
style.

“I can’t help but think there’s a darker undercurrent that I would
probably contribute to the band – and hopefully that would be a
progression from what they’ve done, and hopefully that would stake out
my own territory.”

The opening for Gowan to join Styx came with the news that group founder
and keyboard player Dennis DeYoung would not be part of the latest tour,
which started last July following the release of the band’s first studio
album in nine years, Brave New World. DeYoung is responsible for a
majority of the group’s best-known songs, including Babe, Come Sail
Away, Suite Madame Blue, The Best Of Times, The Grand Illusion, and the
often-maligned Mr. Roboto.

What at first appeared to be a temporary replacement while DeYoung
recovered from a mysterious illness that left him fatigued and unable to
stand too much light or heat, has turned into a permanent change in the
face of the group. The result is a happy fivesome of current Stygians
and a very unhappy DeYoung. The bitterness now involves lawyers on both
sides.

While the illness was given as the reason DeYoung skipped the tour, it
is now clear the roots of the split go much deeper. And the remaining
members have used this development to go for a harder rock edge that
they feel is truer to their original sound.

“Dennis just got through doing a show in Chicago, and he sold it out,
and it’s 180 degrees from what we’re doing, and we’re happy for him,”
Shaw says.

Shaw, who is the dynamic force behind Styx classics like Fooling
Yourself, Crystal Ball, Blue Collar Man, Renegade, and Too Much Time On
My Hands, says it’s better to have Styx exist in some form than not at
all.

“It’s like going through a divorce, you know, you just hold on and hold
on and you hold on and you think it’s going to be okay ‘cause you got
all this history with each other, says Shaw. “And then there comes a
day when you just say no, we’ve got to take this tough step, and this is
hard, and this stinks, but we’ve got to move on, otherwise we’re never
going to be happy.

“Now happiness prevails, and we wish happiness for everybody. Why not?
Life’s too short.”

He says he doesn’t want to be critical of DeYoung in the media: “I have
too much respect for Dennis to do anything to tarnish people’s image of
him.”

While Shaw has received heat in recent months from DeYoung fans, it is
clear that he isn’t alone in favouring this new direction for Styx.
Fellow guitarist James Young, who joined the group in 1970 when it was
still called TW4, makes it clear that this development was a long time
coming.

In a phone interview from his native Chicago, “the Godfather of Styx”
painted a picture of a group that has been dealing with internal
conflict over its musical direction – and even whether to do group
projects at all – for a very long time.

“I’ve been waiting for Dennis DeYoung, off and on, for the last 20
years, to decide to go to work or to decide to do something.”

Young says the lack of collaboration on Brave New World between DeYoung
and the rest of the group was not what he wanted.

“It’s not for a lack of trying on Tommy’s and my part that it wasn’t a
more collaborative process.”

The differences over the musical direction of Styx go back as far as
1980 when the group recorded Babe, their only number one hit. While the
other members of the group knew it would be a hit, there was concern
that the ballad could alienate the group’s core audience. And it
appears that it did just that – as did the group’s next biggest hit, Mr.
Roboto. (Interestingly, it was used in a Volkswagen commercial last
year, just one in a series of breaks for Styx. The biggest was the
appearance of three of their songs in the Adam Sandler film Big Daddy.)

In recent years, DeYoung has gravitated towards Broadway in a big way.
He released an album of standards called 10 on Broadway, and he wrote
and recorded a musical of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

“Dennis has gone very Paul McCartney on us, very musical theatre on us,”
Young says. What he’s doing now really resonates very little in my
judgment with the album Equinox, Crystal Ball, Grand Illusion and Pieces
Of Eight.

“Where Tommy and I are at is much more trying to take those four records
and spin that into the next millennium.”

With DeYoung at the musical helm, it seemed that the band’s live show
had stagnated, a fact that made their last tour in 1997 an unhappy
experience, according to Shaw.

“In some ways we were like an old play where everybody hits their marks,
says the same things with the same little dance routine,” Shaw explains.

“And once we changed that, it opened up the spontaneity, and the
personalities came through.”

And the results are dramatic. What fans see now is five guys who seem
to be having fun with each other. The old differences are gone, and the
enthusiasm is unrestrained.

DeYoung has been harshly critical of what Styx is doing without him,
including their desire to play smaller towns and smaller venues than
they used to. Shaw, Young and Gowan explain that this is an effort to
reintroduce the band on the grassroots level, winning fans through live
performance.

“When people connect with you live, they’re with you for good,” Gowan
says.

So far, the enthusiasm of the fans for the show hasn’t translated into
record sales or radio airplay for Brave New World. The group has found
out in the 1990s that getting their sound on the radio is a major
challenge.

“Until classic rock radio begins to look at some of the classic bands
that they’ve championed, and look at what they’re doing today, it won’t
be the common knowledge that Ricky Martin’s Shake Your Bon Bon is,”
Gowan laughs.

Commercially, the band was on top after the 1983 tour for Kilroy Was
Here. But, Shaw says, the internal politics had become “unbearable” and
he left to pursue a solo career. Kilroy, which was DeYoung’s baby all
the way, was the group’s most theatrical effort yet, complete with a
short film that preceded each concert. But, Young says, it was a
project that the rest of the group only took on after DeYoung insisted.

With Shaw leaving after the ill-fated tour, the group went on hiatus.
The three principal members released several solo albums, but none that
brought them as much success as the group had.

While Shaw and Young say they were desperately trying to get Styx back
together in the late ‘80s, it was DeYoung who was “dragging his heels.”
By the time he could be convinced, Shaw had already committed to joining
Ted Nugent and Damn Yankees.

“When you make a commitment to man with crossbows and loaded firearms
whose name is Ted Nugent, you better take it seriously,” Young laughs.

Glen Burtnik, the group’s current bassist, replaced Shaw on guitar when
Styx released Edge Of The Century in 1990, which yielded the hit Show Me
The Way.

Young explains that the Seattle “grunge” sound of the early 1990s took
the band, and the industry, by surprise. He says that Styx lost a
lucrative recording contract with A&M records through “over-confidence.”

He says A&M had made them an offer after Edge Of The Century, but they
thought they might do better elsewhere. When A&M found out they were
shopping around, they pulled the offer, which Young describes as
“handsome” by today’s standards.

“We wound up with no one interested,” he says.

“Oops, we f- -cked up – to put it bluntly – and it set us back.”

As a result, the group is now signed to CMC (a division of BMG), a label
that has not shown any interest in financing a Styx video, even thought
1997’s Return To Paradise, a double live album, is the only gold record
in CMC’s history.

“They don’t have a lot of bullets to fire, and they’ve chosen to fire
other ones,” Young says. He points out that because CMC doesn’t own the
band’s catalogue of hit albums, and doesn’t benefit when sales of those
albums are stimulated, promoting the group isn’t as profitable.

But the band is optimistic about the prospects that their progressive

style will come into vogue again. In fact, they think it’s already
happening.

“The whole pendulum that had swung towards Seattle has swung back to a
rock mainstream,” Young says. “It’s more song driven, and more harmony
and melody driven.

“If radio and MTV are not ready to jump at this, then we’ve got a bit of
convincing to do.

“If Aerosmith can do it, I don’t know why we can’t.”

RE: Maybe We Need Tommy Shaw Side Of This Story

Vicki — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:06:50 +1000

Tommy Shaw's side of the story was revealed when he started the tour without giving Dennis a chance to recover from his illness and the deaths of the ones he loved. It shows what a backstabbing, selfish, egotistic, little sh*t Tommy really is.
-----------------------------

The same kind of backstabbing, egotistic, little sh*t that let the band go out on tour in 1996 while John P was dying. Yes, Tommy was there too, but as Dennis keeps saying, Dennis was the leader of all things Styx at the time. (In fact, his EXACT words were (in the Montreal followup article) "Styx was a democracy, but I was the president").

Tell me, how much time did President Dennis give Chuck to recover from the death of his twin brother?

It works both ways.

Vicki

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Vicki — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:00:00 +1000

A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOOEY!!

Gee... I was at least able to provide examples and quotes to prove my point. But I guess I should just take your word for it. After al, you know everyone in the band personally and were there during the recording of the album and the tour meetings, right?

Tell me, what kind of soap does Dennis use in his bath? I figure you have probably guessed from the taste by now.

Vicki

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Vicki — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:55:23 +1000

What happened to "the microphone is open whenever Dennis is able to come back."? And then 2 months later "Gowan has permanently replaced Dennis."

Well, I could tell you what happened, but I'd rather let Dennis tell you. Dennis said that they (the band) had been calling him, and HE RESPONDED THROUGH LAWYERS. I don't think Tommy changed his STORY, I think he (and the others) changed their MINDS! People do that sometimes.

As for >The other things that are inconsistent as said by Tommy "Dennis is too sick to tour", "Dennis doens't like touring", "Dennis wants to concentrate onhis musical." <, what makes them inconsistent... could be that they are ALL true. it isn't exactly like Dennis ran out on the road to do a 100+ date extended tour... he has played a few (count 'em... 3 with the two coming up) shows within an easy drive of his hometown. None of those statements are exactly blasts against Dennis either. Dennis himself said that he was too ill to tour, and then got better. Dennis himself said that he did not approve of the venues the band is playing (and I quote "what is Styx doing playing PLACES LIKE AKRON?"), hence I am sure he did not want to play those venues, hence he did not like the idea of touring to play them. Dennis himself said that he did not want to tour in 1997 but wanted to work on Hunchback instead. Sounds to me like Tommy simply paraphrased the things that Dennis himself has been saying.

Sometimes it's a whole lot easier to keep your story straight when you are lying. After all, when you are lying you can twist the details into whatever shape you like to make them fit the story.

Just a thought.

Vicki

RE: Maybe We Need Tommy Shaw Side Of This Story

Jan — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:12:43 +1000

RE: Maybe We Need Tommy Shaw Side Of This Story

Todd — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:02:28 +1000

The problem with getting Tommy Shaw's side of the story is that it keeps changing.

You never get the truth with Tommy Shaw.

He is a big fat liar who has used Dennis's illness to conduct a coup de tat on the band that Dennis formed.

And the current version of this band, sucks.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Todd — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:56:58 +1000

Debbie wrote -

A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOOEY!!

She's got too much time on her hands...

Tommy Shaw is the low life liar here.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Todd — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:53:45 +1000

I'm sorry but you are sorely mistaken.

Tommy's story has changed numerous times depending on the situation..

What happened to "the microphone is open whenever Dennis is able to come back."? And then 2 months later "Gowan has permanently replaced Dennis."

The other things that are inconsistent as said by Tommy "Dennis is too sick to tour", "Dennis doens't like touring", "Dennis wants to concentrate onhis musical."

Its a whole lot easier to keep your stories straight when you tell the truth.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Jane — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:26:14 +1000

Funny how you say you've heard "numerous" stories from Tommy Shaw, when he and the others have been all but silent on the situation, not wanting to air dirty laundry in public view. The only time we've heard anything from the "other" side was when the Montreal article came out.

Egads, you people need to get a life.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Stacy — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:42:20 +1000

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!! Jonathan- what a riot!!! That was definately the funniest thing I have read this morning!

Do you honestly believe every shred of what Dennis has said is gospel? Come ON!!! You have Tommy, JY, CHUCK, Glen, Todd, AND many members of Styx' extended family (managment, engineers, road crew etc) on one side here...and on the other side? Just Dennis. Surely there has to be a reason for this. WHY would CHUCK- one of the two people that founded the band Dennis asked to join) be out on the road with these "liars" as you call them? Dennis would like you to believe he's retired, but Chuck DOES go out on the road when he wants to and performs with STYX. Don't deny it.. he was just in Atlantic City 2 weeks ago where i MET HIM on 2 or 3 occasions, as well as in Conecticut and Verona NY. Not to mention the half dozen appearances he made during last year's tour. Why is he supporting Styx? Maybe it's because there is more going on than what Dennis is telling you. According to JY in a recent interview: "Young, who joined the group in 1970, says he doesn't want to trade accusations with DeYoung, but says there are two sides to every story. "I can't help what impression people are forming, I can only say no one else in the band is chiming in to agree with Dennis," he says. "All our star employees are with me and Tommy at this time, so that should say
something to people"

Further on Dennis said "We had a democracy, but I was the president".

Well, maybe the BAND decided it needed a new president. It sounded to me like Dennis was more like the head of a dictatorship. Perhaps they wanted do do things differently than PRESIDENT DENNIS. Hence his situation.

I have not heard ONE disparaging remark from TOMMY about Dennis, because he has too much class and respect for himself and Dennis (and the STYX name) to tarnish any of their reputations in the press. Dennis on the other hand has a big mouth and doesn't know when to close it.

Some things are better left unsaid. They don't help the situation any, so why start trouble. I guess Mr. DeYoung wants to alienate ALL his fans. Well, I can tell you, he's doing a pretty good job! Keep it up!

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Todd — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:18:02 +1000

I cannot believe that Dawn Marie is so callous that after reading that heart-felt article, she has the audacity to criticize Dennis DeYoung in the way she did.

How about Tommy Shaw in all this? I'd ask you, if you spent your whole life's work - almost 40 years - and had it taken away from you when you were sick, how would you feel? How would you feel if someone took your name and ruined it? How would you feel if you were froced out of your life's work against your will?

Yet, this person is focusing on one little minute point that from what I've seen of some of these fanatical STYX fans - is dead on the point.

Wake up!!!

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Jonathan — Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:00:18 +1000

All Dennis has done in this whole situation is tell the truth. Period. We have heard nuemrous stories and changes of stories from Tommy Shaw and company.

You people so incensed about the bathwater comment (which is absolutely the funniest and most dead on thing I have heard in a while) need to step back and see the big picture - who has been lying and who has been telling the truth.

If you just take a step back, I think you'll find that the blame lies with little Tommy Shaw who has been dishonest, insincere, and mean-spirited about this whole thing from day 1.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Rather Large Canine — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:26:55 +1000

Like I said in another post, I did not believe everything Dennis said in his interview with Andrew. The "ah shucks" kinda guy he came off as did not fit the person. Back in their hey day, I was of the opinion that Dennis had one the biggest egos in the biz (or at least that is how he came off on stage). His personality rubbed me the wrong way.

When Tommy left back in the mid 80s, i followed his solo work up until _Ambition_ (which was a huge disappointment for me). Looking back now, his early solo work while strong did not reach the same height as Styx.

I did not follow Dennis' solo work at all (though I did like when I heard _Deseert Moon_ on the radio). I recently bought Dennis' _Ultimate Collection_ CD and liked most of those songs. But as a sum of his best work since Styx broke up (ieTommy left) it does not surpass his work in Styx.

I heard a story back in the early 90s when Styx (with Burtnik) and Damn Yankees were touring and happened to be on the same bill. Tommy made an effort to drop in and say hey to Styx and he was turned away at the door, which showed how childish they were treating each other. At the time, I thought that it must have been Dennis with his huge ego that sent Tommy away.

Having wrote all of the above, I still think that Dennis is a key member of Styx and was in a huge part responsible for the success they obtained. Styx without Dennis does not work for me any better than Styx without Tommy. I do not plan to buy any future Styx album unless it has both Dennis and Tommy (which aint going to happen).

barking on,
Big Dog

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Jane Sharma — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:15:08 +1000

Wow...Vicki has pretty much said everything about how I feel about this recent Dennis DeYoung interview. His disparaging comment about the fans who support the current touring lineup of Styx has set him apart from ALL the other members of Styx, past & present. NO ONE else has EVER insulted fans like he has. Guess we now know how little we mean to him. He just doesn't care about the average "joe fan" at all. Dennis' concerns are only for himself. Too bad. The man has an awesome voice.....one that attracted me to the group in the first place. But I will not support him buy purchasing another darn thing done by him or attending any shows of his. At least the current Styx line-up knows how to APPRECIATE and RESPECT the fans. A concept that I feel DDY may not EVER grasp.

RE: Dennis DeYoung

ZanGatti — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:53:56 +1000

Vicki, the Goddess of Truth said:

>>Dennis says that in 1983 he would not let the band go on without Tommy
because "Styx is these guys". Funny how his tune changed in 1990...
isn't it?

In 1990, was the ink even dry on the Damn Yankees contract when Dennis
was miraculously freed up sufficiently to reunite Styx? Tommy and JY had
been working toward that reunion with the Panozzo brothers since 1988.
Dennis said he "had to tour to support Boomchild" (a point I'll come
back to). Fine. What a coincidence that he just happened to be freed up
as soon as Tommy was unavailable. Ask yourself, when tommy was on
Rockline with Damn Yankees in 1990 and a fan called in to ask about the
Styx situation, did Tommy say "Those [insert your favorite plural
expletive here] waited until I was signed with Damn Yankees so that they
could go on with Styx without me"? Did Tommy insult the fans who liked
that album, and demean the fans that went to the shows and enjoyed them?
Did he? NO! He most certainly did not. He PROMOTED the 'Edge of the
Century" album AND tour! He told people that he had a copy of the album
and that it is a great album. He told people that he was sure that they
would put on a great show. Do you know why? Did it have to do with the
fact that Tommy wrote and recorded songs for 'Edge of the Century'? Was
it for all those royalties Tommy got for that album? Gee, I don't think
so. So then why DID Tommy promote them? That would be because, despite
what Dennis DeYoung would have people believe, Tommy Shaw has class, and
a love for this band called Styx that surpasses his love for himself! <<

Thank you, Vicki...I was just watching an old tape of "Into the Night with Rick Dees" when STYX was on promoting the "Edge of the Century" album. When Rick casually asked about the break-up in 1984, Dennis' comment (seemingly sarcastic at the time) was and I quote, "It was Wednesday. Wednesdays was garbage day...had to get that garbage out...smells up the garage."

Hmmmm....what could he have meant?

Again, a comment probably made to be funny, but came out nothing but derrogatory and insulting.

Dennis, stick to writing songs...your dialogue kinda stinks like the garbage.

-Zan :)

Maybe We Need Tommy Shaw Side Of This Story

Susumu — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:45:41 +1000

I like Styx but I didn't know there was so much conflict between members and even among fans to support either party.

This board is not dedicated for Dennis De Young so maybe Andrew need to take balance somewhere to get Tommy Shaw side of story .

Or keep free of this matter to avoid further trouble(taking lesson from what happened in Survivor and Van Halen stories).

Regards

Susumu

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Vicki — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:14:55 +1000

This interview has ruined all the respect that I once had for Dennis DeYoung, not as a musician, but as a human being. Dennis is hurt, that much I understand, but that is absolutely NO excuse to insult, and thus hurt, the fans who have supported your career for over 20 years.

Dennis says that his story hasn't changed, but that is, quite unfortunately, not true. As can be seen from Debbie's post Dennis has done A LOT of speaking on this subject, and here are but a small number of his inconsistencies, as well as a lesson in Styx history .

1) In a letter posted to GrandIllusionMusic.com Dennis states that he worked hard to insure a summer release of the Styx album "Brave New World". He says that it is a good album, and then jokes "what am I gonna say, it stinks?" In the followup article from montreal however, Dennis states that he begged the band to wait six more months before releasing Brave New World because it has, and I quote "too many lousy songs on it".

2)In another letter posted to GrandIllusionMusic.com Dennis states that he wanted it to be clear to the president of CMC records that his illness was not affecting the production of the album. In the followup Montreal Article Dennis states that he did not wish to work on the song "Everything Is Cool" because he was, and I quote "too ill". How can his illness not have affected production of the album if he was too ill to work on one of the songs?

3) In several interviews Dennis complains that the band "won't return my phone calls". In THIS interview he says that they had been calling him (now THAT'S a switch... previously they wouldn't even speak to him), and he ANSWERED them through his attorney. Before admitting that Dennis had been the first to contact his attorney (during the MidWest Beat article) Dennis blasts his bandmates for only contacting him through lawyers (the "they won't even talk to me" line is used here), on a radio interview at Z104 Dennis states that when he was feeling better he decided to cantact the band through his attorney, because (and I quote) "that's just the way it's done". He does not elaborate on that statement. Not only does this make his blasting of his one-time bandmates for only responding through lawyers bad enough on its own... now we find out that they HAD BEEN CALLING HIM!! If he had a problem working through attorneys then tell me, why did he contact his?

4)Dennis says that in 1983 he would not let the band go on without Tommy because "Styx is these guys". Funny how his tune changed in 1990... isn't it?

5)In 1990, was the ink even dry on the Damn Yankees contract when Dennis was miraculously freed up sufficiently to reunite Styx? Tommy and JY had been working toward that reunion with the Panozzo brothers since 1988. Dennis said he "had to tour to support Boomchild" (a point I'll come back to). Fine. What a coincidence that he just happened to be freed up as soon as Tommy was unavailable. Ask yourself, when tommy was on Rockline with Damn Yankees in 1990 and a fan called in to ask about the Styx situation, did Tommy say "Those [insert your favorite plural expletive here] waited until I was signed with Damn Yankees so that they could go on with Styx without me"? Did Tommy insult the fans who liked that album, and demean the fans that went to the shows and enjoyed them? Did he? NO! He most certainly did not. He PROMOTED the 'Edge of the Century" album AND tour! He told people that he had a copy of the album and that it is a great album. He told people that he was sure that they would put on a great show. Do you know why? Did it have to do with the fact that Tommy wrote and recorded songs for 'Edge of the Century'? Was it for all those royalties Tommy got for that album? Gee, I don't think so. So then why DID Tommy promote them? That would be because, despite what Dennis DeYoung would have people believe, Tommy Shaw has class, and a love for this band called Styx that surpasses his love for himself! What a pity the same things can not be said of Dennis DeYoung.

6) In 1990, did Styx change it's name? Did they not use Tommy's songs? Funny, I seem to recall 'Renegade' being the encore that tour.

7)In 1975, when Tommy replaced John Curlewski, did Styx change it's name? Did Styx miss a touring beat? I don't think so. I seem to recall Tommy having a whole big whopping 2 days to learn the material so that they could perform their shows.

8)In 1996 John Panozzo was too ill to tour, but it was expected that John would join the band on the road. Did Dennis cry out against the injustice being done to John? Styx was formed by Chuck and John in THEIR basement. Did Dennis wait for John to get better? Do you honestly believe that John did not WANT to be with the band in 1996? Did Dennis care? Apparently not!

9) Back to the Boomchild tour, obviously this would indicate that Dennis knows how, when you release an album you have an obligation to tour to support that album. Tell me, did Dennis not know the band would have to tour to support Brave New World if the album was released on time? If Dennis really did "beg them to wait for him before touring" why did he also "work to make sure that the album had a summer release"? Am I the only person to whom this makes no sense?

Tommy waited for Dennis in 1988, and Dennis screwed him. How many times is he supposed to wait? Has Dennis ever waited for anyone? Did Dennis wait for John Curlewski in 1975 (or at least change the band's name, since they were promoting a band with songs John C had written)? Did Dennis wait for Tommy in 1990? Did Dennis wait for John P in 1996?

Dennis has OPENLY criticized the venues that Styx has been playing (to wit: "what is Styx doing playing places like Akron?" I tell you, I wouldn't expect for Dennis to sell many copies of his next album there!). If Dennis was to come back, what would happen to those shows already scheduled for smaller venues?

Dennis has openly criticized the fans (something NONE of the other members of Styx have EVER done), and has now lost many fans because of it.

Dennis is totally alienating the Styx fanbase, and blames it on Tommy and JY. Dennis has totally alienated his band mates, and says that it is because they are treating him poorly. When Dennis makes statements like "Brave New World has too many lousy songs on it", and "they (Tommy and JY) are destroying the fanbase", do you expect them to keep promoting him? Would you? Wouldn't you distance yourself from this person who is giving you bad press? Dennis' solo show in Chicago was advertised on the front page of the Styx web site. Tommy CONGRATULATED Dennis on a sold out show in an interview, and told the interviewer (the first Montreal article) what good things he had been hearing about the show. Before that show Tommy told a fan in chat that he was sure it would be an incredible show, and that he would expect nothing less from Dennis. What a horrible person that Tommy Shaw is!! How dare he say such horrid things about Dennis! Oh, that's right... those were compliments, how foolish of me. Tell me, when was the last time that Dennis supported one of Tommy's efforts?

Quite frankly, if anyone is tearing apart the fanbase it is Dennis himself. If anyone has shown an utter lack of concern for the band and it's reputation, it's Dennis. Dennis has shown that his love for himself is the greatest love he has. Personally, I hope Dennis NEVER returns to Styx, and if Tommy DOES take him back I will personally fly out to LA just to slap Tommy upside the head for being stupid enough to take that uncaring egomaniacal jerk back. (OK, I'm exaggerating, but I will tell Tommy in chat!)

There is a reason why industry people are jaded. It is because when they meet the people they spent their lives admiring and respecting, the people who inspired them to be where they are today, those people, more likely than not, turn out to be like Dennis DeYoung. I am just grateful that I still have Tommy Shaw, James Young, Chuck Panozzo, John Panozzo, Glen Burtnik, Todd Sucherman, and Larry Gowan to look up to. I have met them all, and it was a pleasure each time I was fortunate enough to do so. For all of the member changes in Styx, the only person to have not worked with Tommy is John C, because he left the band before Tommy joined. Even Glen, who replaced Tommy in 1990, has NO PROBLEMS working with Tommy. If that is not an indication of where the problems really lie, I don't know what is. When 6 people can work together in ANY combination, and a 7th person can't seem to work with them in any combination, who is at fault?

Dennis is a talented man, I will give you that. If you think that gives him the right to insult his fans and be a class-A jerk then you have a LOT to learn about life. He may get away with this kind of thing, but that does not make it right. This time, he didn't get away with it, and I for one am glad he didn't.

LONG LIVE STYX!!

Vicki

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Debbie — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:31:31 +1000

1. Dennis has already given numerous radio and Internet interviews over the course of the past year, so this is NOT his first run at providing his story -- however, bits and pieces do seem to change and/or get elaborated on (go seek them out for yourself -- there are tons of them).

2. The touring band "Styx" is comprised of JY and Tommy (of course), but also includes a past bandmember (who has also contributed many songwriting credits for Styx) Glen Burtnik, their new drummer, Todd Sucherman (who has been a bonafide member of Styx since the untimely passing of John Panozzo), and Chuck Panozzo (an original member), who has been frequently joining Styx on stage at several, if not most, of their shows since the tour began last year. He is in full support of this touring lineup and looks damn happy to be there, however, he just chose not to do a full tour with them to allow free time to do his own thing and deal with his brother's and his mother's recent deaths. (Can't really blame the guy for that, can you?)

3. They are currently in litigation which we do not know the details of, but I'm sure that lawyers have advised the parties involved to remain mum on the subject to some degree. I'd handle it the same way, if I were them.

4. CMC forced them to finish the album, therefore, a promotional tour was necessary (see Dennis' Midwest Beat Magazine article -- in his own words). They had contracted Styx to deliver an album by a certain date and, therefore, expected delivery. Also, the rising popularity and exposure that Styx was experiencing at the time ("Big Daddy," South Park, and the Volkswagon "Roboto" commercials, etc.), dictated that they push ahead as scheduled and "ride the wave."

5. Dennis was not granted access to the Styx website probably because (note: Dennis really didn't bother much to contribute to that site in the first place; he was perfectly happy to have Tommy do it):

(a) it is owned by Styx management and Dennis has a different management company, AND/OR
(b) Litigation had already begun and I suspect that had something to do with it.

6. There is a whole lot more that is NOT being told. There are three sides to every story: his, theirs, and the truth. Do not allow one side, i.e., Dennis', to cloud your judgement (BTW, Tommy and JY have only really given one interview that I know of -- the Montreal article that Andrew re-posted a while back -- where they discuss this situation). If you really read DDY's interviews in succession -- see the list of URLs at the end of this post -- you will see this for yourself.

I had felt sorry for Dennis and his "illness" in the beginning, but have soon started to question and doubt his story after reading/hearing his words several times. He would have everyone believe that it is just 2 guys from Styx when, to anyone who really knows who they are and their history, know that is far from the truth.

He would also have you believe that he IS Styx, when he was the one to ask to join John and Chuck Panozzo when he heard them playing in their garage. Also, he seems to forget that other original members of Styx do INDEED own *shares* of the Styx name and therefore have just as much right (or maybe even more if they are all in agreement) to the Styx name as he claims he does. The touring band is doing nothing to *damage* the Styx name and they still manage to send hundreds and thousands of fans home with a happy smile on their face (I know this from personal experience).

DDY also conveniently fails to mention Chuck's support of this lineup in all of his interviews, claiming that he is "retired." Just go to a show or two and you're bound to see Chuck join them during "Fooling Yourself."

Dennis has also not been the sweetest to us Internet fans, as follows:

From Andrew's Interview:
-----------------------------------
"Other than getting on the web and dealing with a small amount of people who'll click on and basically drink your bath water if you want them too."

From Allan Hirt's Interview:
--------------------------------------
"AH: Basically, people are supporting the tour."
DDY: "You mean the 600 people on the Internet?"
AH: "Yeah ... people are going, and then you have your people who are like, well, 'We know it's not the same ...'"
DDY: "They're desperate to have anything."

If you were to listen to DDY talk about us, you would think that he views us as mindless drones and that we don't have the ability to make up our own minds as to what we want or what we don't. Denny, I got news for you... The Internet fans only comprise *a very small percentage* of the entire attendance at these show's, and the band have been selling out far more venues than DDY would like to admit.

The showmanship, professionalism, and talent displayed by the touring band is impeccible and hard to deny. I have seen quite a few of them so far, and I would gladly go again. It's unfortunate that Dennis can no longer be with them, but I am willing to support them as long as Styx can go on and produce the music I love.

To me, that is what is most important...

Debbie

*********************************************************************************************

List of Dennis DeYoung Articles:
----------------------------------------------
3/1/00 - DENNIS DEYOUNG - THE GRAND ILLUSION *
This article provides Styx history and current status, and quotes from Dennis.
Written by David Richards . Publisher: Lexicon Magazine Thanks to Lexicon Magazine Online for permission to reprint this article.

2/14/00 - Chicago Tribune Rosemont 2/12 Concert Review *
The Chicago Tribune 2/12 Rosemont review.
Written by Chicago Tribune . Publisher: Chicago Tribune Thanks to Chicago Tribune for permission to reprint this article.

2/14/00 - Dennis DeYoung Saturday, February 12, 2000 *
Illinois Entertainer's review of the 2/12 Rosemont show.
Written by John Everson . Publisher: Illinois Entertainer Thanks to Illinois Entertainer for permission to reprint this article.

2/14/00 - Dennis DeYoung - The Heart And Soul Of STYX Steps Out!
Midwest Beat Magazine reviewed the Rosemont 2/12 show.
Written by Tom Lounges . Publisher: Midwest Beat Magazine Thanks to Midwest http://www.midwestbeat.com/ezine/feb/deyoung.html.

10/31/99 - STYX - Behind The Grand Illusion *
This article talks in-depth about the current album and tour, and also contains extensive quotes from band members.
Written by John Everson . Publisher: Illinois Entertainer Thanks to Illinois Entertainer for permission to reprint this article.

10/24/99 - STYX: SET AN OPEN COURSE FOR THE VIRGIN SEA - Part III *
Goldmine Article Styx Feature - Part III, Brave New World
Written by Chuck Miller . Publisher: Goldmine Magazine Thanks to Goldmine Magazine for permission to reprint this article.

10/23/99 - STYX: SET AN OPEN COURSE FOR THE VIRGIN SEA Part II *
Goldmine Article Styx Feature - Part II, Superstars
Written by Chuck Miller . Publisher: Goldmine Magazine Thanks to Goldmine Magazine for permission to reprint this article.

10/22/99 - STYX: SET AN OPEN COURSE FOR THE VIRGIN SEA *
Goldmine Article Styx Feature - Part I, The Beginning and Wooden Nickel Years
Written by Chuck Miller . Publisher: Goldmine Magazine Thanks to Goldmine Magazine for permission to reprint this article.

10/8/99 - Grand Illusions: An Exclusive Collector's Guide Interview With Dennis DeYoung
Allan Hirt, who has interviewed Dennis in the past for Keyboard Magazine, has a brand-new, in-depth interview with Dennis from October 8th. This is an excellent interview which covers many of the recent issues surrounding Styx and the latest on Dennis's health. In addition, Allan has much more Dennis and Styx related information on his website.
Written by Allan Hirt . Publisher: Allan Hirt
http://members.tripod.com/styxdiscog/index.html

9/1/96 - Dennis DeYoung - Road Report
1996 Keyboard Magazine Dennis DeYoung article - this article was written during the Return to Paradise tour, and has lots of information on Dennis's touring keyboard equipment. Special thanks to Allan Hirt for permission to include this article on our site.
Written by Allan Hirt . Publisher: Keyboard magazine
http://members.tripod.com/styxdiscog/index.html.

* = Articles located at http://www.grandillusionmusic.com

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Elaine — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:45:24 +1000

All I have to say about the interview is to insult your fans no matter what the goings are between the band members is just disgusting. He is a freakin musician, that's all, not god. I think he will lose quiet a few fans over this comment, me included.

Elaine

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Dawn-Marie — Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:09:36 +1000

As for the interview with DDY I have PLENTY to say. I have been a Styx fan since 1977. I love ALL of the guys. I followed them all during their solo careers (even having flown to Nashville to see DDY's musical "Hunchback"--TWICE!)

But after this interview with DDY, he's completely and totally "lost my vote". The "drinking the bathwater" comment can only be taken one way, as an insult to the online community of Styx fans.

I can understand he might (and I say "might" because there are always 3 sides to every story) have a beef with the other fellas (namely Tommy and JY) but I think his recent comments and behavior are completely unprofessional. DDY has continually made public slams which do not become him whatsoever. (Nor do they earn any respect with me.) Tommy and JY have said NOTHING publicly and that's the way I think it should be. I, as a fan, do not want to hear about the band's dirty laundry. I know he probably feels that he has gotten a bum deal. That’s understandable and I feel terrible about that. However, using the media for public put-downs of the other band-members is just plain childish.

Now as for the “bathwater” comment, in my opinion it only shows how ignorant DDY is of the size and power of the Internet. He is WAY BEHIND the times and in need of a serious education when it comes to the online community. To assume the Internet fan base is only a small minority is a major faux pas indeed!

The Internet Styx fans are Doctors, Lawyers, Policemen (women), Managers, Directors, Professionals, Mothers, Fathers, Children (2nd generation Styx fans) and the like. DDY has insulted every last one of them with his comments.

It's bad enough he's using public forums to "dis" the other band members (like an aggravated child if you ask me). But to then insult the fan base on top of that is going WAY TOO FAR. He has bitten the hand that feeds him and I’m afraid that from now on he will find he has much less support than he's had in the past.

As for myself, after 23 years of respect and admiration for DDY and his work, I am proverbially "pushed over that fence". Since he seems to think that I, and many others online, are nothing but stalkers, freaks and “bathwater” drinkers. That being the case, why should I have any respect for him or support for his career? DDY seems to have no respect whatsoever for his fans. This interview made that quite apparent.

It is INDEED a sad day for Styx fans everywhere.

Extremely disappointed in NYC. :^(

RE: Dennis DeYoung

Ann — Mon, 24 Apr 2000 07:02:56 +1000

Hi Andrew,

That was a great interview with Dennis DeYoung. It is nice to get to hear Dennis' side of the story.

Dennis DeYoung

SC — Mon, 24 Apr 2000 02:47:43 +1000

Andrew, thanks for doing the Dennis DeYoung interview. I have to say, it's nice to hear his side of things. But you have to wonder, what are the other members of the band thinking?

I can't speak for anywhere else in the country, but in Phoenix, Arizona, the newspaper and radio ads make no mention of who is in Styx on this tour. At least Journey went out of their way to let people know "Steve Perry is no longer with the band". The radio ad named all the members who were going to be playing. They even went so far as to cut a 2 track promo live CD to showcase the talents of Steve Augeri, which a local station went so far as to play the cuts numerous times for people who couldn't believe how much Augeri sounded like Perry.

I would be willing to bet that at least 97% of the people going to see Styx on this tour have no idea that Dennis will not be with them. It seems rather obvious that the other members know how valuable the Styx name is(or was)and see fit to do with it what they will...without telling the fans. Now, from what I have heard of this tour, Dennis' repalcement(Laurence Gowan I believe, I could be wrong)is absolutely outstanding. I hear the shows are great, but that doesn't give the band any right to attempt to pull off such a charade. I wish Laurence luck, as any time an original member is replaced, there are usually big shoes to fill. In Dennis' case, they are HUGE. Personally, I think the band should use a different name. Something that identifies them with their past. Like "Equinox featuring members of Styx" or better yet, how about 'Grand Illusion'. Tommy and JY, you're only fooling yourselves(sorry about the pun)if you think you can carry on the name and more importantly, the spirit of Styx without Dennis.

I am heartbroken after hearing what has happened, and after seeing what everyone has had to say(including Dennis not being allowed access to the Styx page - that speaks volumes doesn't it?), I tend to believe Dennis' side of things. The guy started the band. Tommy was a replacement member. The band as it is today is mainly comprised of replacement members. Nothing against that, they're all good musicians and songwriters in their own rite. Heck, even Journey, Iron Maiden, UFO, The Eagles' lineups that weren't original were more popular than the originals were. But the Journey saga is different. Steve apparently didn't want to come back. Dennis clearly did. It's in his blood. HE IS STYX! But you would think the guys could have some compassion and get on to some other solo projects while waiting for Dennis to make his recovery. I have lost a lot of respect for Tommy and JY. Together with Dennis, they were a great team.

Oh yeah, speaking of Brave New World, I was blown away too...by the fact that it was released the way it was. The cover is the worst looking thing I've laid eyes on in ages! And the songs, well, they definitely had some potential, but something overall was missing. It was seriously lacking cohesiveness. Check back in about 5-10 years time and see where the album stands. Not in the top 5 Styx albums. Probably not even in the top 10.